International money for Dean

[Flying Illini]

I refer to the Bush Klan as Sr, Jr, and Jeb (if you wanna make a comparison to the KKK, go ahead).

Kevdog,
You made the reference to the KKK when you spelled clan with a "K."

 

[46Driver]

We didn't train Osama and our support for the Afghanistan freedom fighters was indirect. We supplied much to the Pakistanis but they controlled where it went- thus we were able to wash our hands.

CNN didn't write the book, Bergen did. (Interestingly enough, he finished the book in August, 2001 - how's that for timing...) Bergen is a highly respected journalist who travelled in country and even met bin Laden himself. I think you will find the book a good read and challenge some of your assumptions - it certainly did for me.

 

[Timebuilder]

Great reading tip. Wish I had the time and money for a master's course.

 

[kevdog]

Wow, I didn't know France was our enemy. Are we going to bomb Paris anytime soon? Um...if you look at Saddam's Resume (to use a French word), he was an a$$hole scumbag before and while we were supporting him and his country. And as CNN reported, Iraq has around a $3 Billion debt to France, and a $2 Billion (before war) debt with the U.S. So you are saying it's ok to support a scumbag, as long as we want to?

France, like most countries in Europe and the world, did not support our actions in Iraq because they viewed them as unnecessary aggression. Germany sorta left a bitter taste in countries mouth by invading them (acts of aggression). And maybe if you remember, the reasons Bush went to war with Iraq was bad intelligence, and WMD that we still haven't found. Now what, you going to say Iraq moved all their secret WMD while the country was crawling with U.N. inspectors whose reports appear now to be correct? But it's ok that the U.S. consistenty looks at the U.N. as a 'paper' organization that we don't have to respect and follow? Israel sure hasn't kept to U.N. resolutions either, but we aren't bombing them. Now we scapegoat countries like France for having an opinon. I'm sure glad the MacArthur days are back!

Why aren't we at war with N Korea? No oil there, but they sure are planning on making WMD.

Why are soldiers getting killed in Iraq on a nearly daily basis? Polls show only 50% of Iraqi's like what we did for them and want us there controlling them and placing a government that supports our culture. Regardless of our culture, it is THEIR country!

Now doesn't George W. Bush have somewhere around a 50% approval rating? Just try to imagine the following: An unnamed country or planet tells Bush that he has 48 hours to leave the country or he will face extreme consequences. 48 Hours later, out of the blue, UFO type equipment attacks us, killing thousands of innocent people, and overtaking our government. The only reason they attacked us was because Bush wasn't liked by them and reports were spread that we had enough nuclear weapons (WMD) to blow up the world 100 times and had even used them before, killing hundreds of thousands of people. The aggressors technology and war machine is like nothing seen before and no match to our own.

Pretty far-fetched story, right?

Too bad most of the world wouldn't care if it happened right now.

If you don't travel much, CNN isn't going to tell you this.

 

[Timebuilder]

Wow, I didn't know France was our enemy. Are we going to bomb Paris anytime soon?

Just review their statements over the past year. You judge for yourself if they are an enemy.

So you are saying it's ok to support a scumbag, as long as we want to?

I'm saying that you sometimes have to choose the lesser of two evils, becuase you don't have a better choice to make.

And maybe if you remember, the reasons Bush went to war with Iraq was bad intelligence, and WMD that we still haven't found. Now what, you going to say Iraq moved all their secret WMD while the country was crawling with U.N. inspectors whose reports appear now to be correct?

We don't know how bad the intelligence was, because we waited so long after gathering that intelligence to begin our action.

Crawling with UN inspectors? Please, tell me that you are not serious when you say that. The inspectors in recent days were herded and watched closely, dare I say, threateningly? by the Iraqis under Sadaam. The manner in which inspections were conducted allowed weapons to be moved and concealed. Previously, in 1998, there was evidence of WMD's, which are not there now. You make the judgement: knowing the character of Sadaam Hussein, and based on his actions, do you think he destroyed all of his WMD's, or did he send them elsewhere for safekeeping and future use? Which scenario seems more likely to you?

But it's ok that the U.S. consistenty looks at the U.N. as a 'paper' organization that we don't have to respect and follow? Israel sure hasn't kept to U.N. resolutions either, but we aren't bombing them. Now we scapegoat countries like France for having an opinon. I'm sure glad the MacArthur days are back!

We look, at least I look, at the UN as an organization that we started as a good faith mechanism for fostering world peace during the Cold War. What it has become is far different: an organization of socialists who seek to begin a global government where the sovereignty of the United states will become secondary to the UN. We don't use the disagreement with UN resolutions to decide who to "bomb", we decide that based on a number of factors. I don't scapegoat France for having an opinon. I scapegoat them for having a wrong, yes, an idiotic opinion. We assured that they HAD an opinion by the shedding of blood by US soldiers in WWII, a fact the seem a little dim about these days.

Why aren't we at war with N Korea? No oil there, but they sure are planning on making WMD.

I'm sure I don't have to point out the far different dynamic of N Korea. Or, do I have to point that out to you?

Why are soldiers getting killed in Iraq on a nearly daily basis?

Because it's a war.

As far as your farfetched story is concerned: baby, you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Read the book of Revelation.

 

[46Driver]

France, like most countries in Europe and the world, did not support our actions in Iraq because they viewed them as unnecessary aggression.

France, Germany, and Russia were/are heavily invested in Iraq and had economic interests for maintaining the status quo.

**************************************************
Why aren't we at war with N Korea? No oil there, but they sure are planning on making WMD.

Excellent question: The answer is as follows:
1) No criticial natural resource (i.e., oil) in North Korea

2) North Korea ALREADY has weapons of mass destruction and a means to deliver them - big difference between trying to obtain and already have - kinda like the difference between a vaccine and medicine.

3) North Korea already possesses sufficient conventional weapons to kill hundreds of thousands of South Koreans (our allies) - Seoul is within artillery range of North Korea.

4) China - obviously a major power - does not want us on the their border at the Yalu River. Last time MacArthur tried that in 1950, millions of Chinese "volunteers" came screaming across the border.

****************************************************

Why are soldiers getting killed in Iraq on a nearly daily basis? Polls show only 50% of Iraqi's like what we did for them and want us there controlling them and placing a government that supports our culture. Regardless of our culture, it is THEIR country!

Soldiers are easy targets for even a small insurgency when on occupation duty. However, the insurgents are incapable of mounting even small scale military actions. Most Iraqies are very happy that we have delivered them from Saddam (with the notable exception of the Saddam supporting Baathists who are now out of power). However, they do not want us as occupiers (completely understandable.) The US is having to walk a fine line between staying out of the way while preventing anarchy and a return of the Baathists to power - not an easy tightrope to walk.

 

[kevdog]

Timebuilder...you're not getting my point.

The world doesn't like too much what we are doing, whether you support it or not - travel a little and you might see this. This just might have something to do with why terrorists slammed our airplanes into our buildings. Understood?

The U.N. stands for the United Nations, not the United Nations underneath the world power of the U.S.

What we have been doing abroad and what we continue to do has and will continue to have bad repercussions, that's all I'm trying to say.

 

[kevdog]

46Driver...Thanks for your replies!

 

[TonyC]

As a side note, I am against criminals maintaining any rights except those that cover their prosecution or incarceration. No color TV/cable/air conditioning/conjugal visits/voting. It's punishment.

... or black and white TV...

... or DSL ...

... or Playboy ...

USA Today should be OK, that's more punishment.

 

[Timebuilder]

The world doesn't like too much what we are doing, whether you support it or not - travel a little and you might see this. This just might have something to do with why terrorists slammed our airplanes into our buildings. Understood?

I understand you completely. I used to agree with kind of thinking.

This is called appeasement. It doesn't work.

Essentially, this position advocates that we step down from the gold medal platform and only advocate our position as "another idea, one of many ideas that are essentially of equal value". We must, under this line of thinking, abdicate all sovereignty to the "new world governing body", the UN. This was not why the UN was formed, and it is not a part of its charter or purpose. Younger people generally don't know this, or have some romantic notion that this is a step forward toward world peace, when in fact it is a step in the direction of world domination by the antichrist, a step toward a totalitarian environment that will make Joe Stalin look like the principal of a Goddard School.

Let me explain this in plain language. The terrorists don't want to make nice with us, they want to eliminate us, just like they want to eliminate the jews. We must do a better job of eliminating them than they do of eliminating us. It's that simple. They don't want concessions, other than as a ploy to buy them time. The Palestinians are masters of this, make a deal, buy some time, kill some jews. To them, this is honorable behavior, but we should not give it any creedence than what it is: a ruse.

Most of the hatred of America is bred by ignorance: people who are not well informed and are easily manipulated by others, mostly in Muslim countries where they follow an evil doctrine that supports their methods. Others, like France, resent our popular influence, and the spread of American style capitalism. Over two hundred years ago, France held a respected position on the world stage, and they miss it these days.

There will be "bad repercussions" no matter what we do, but we are minimizing our losses by taking on terrorism head-on.

Thank heavens we did not have some yahoo like Howard Dean in the White House when we were attacked. No telling where we would be.

 

[kevdog]

??? So you are saying we should start preparing for WWIII? The world against the United States?

Most of the hatred of America is bred by ignorance: people who are not well informed and are easily manipulated by others

...Sounds like your reasoning for hating Muslims and countries like France.

Over two hundred years ago, France held a respected position on the world stage, and they miss it these days.

I guess the U.S. will feel the same as France does in 200 years when China becomes the Empire of the planet.

 

[Snakum]

Osama was not our payroll.

No, but the people who trained Saddam's state police were, and the checks were cut in Langley.



Have nice day Chickenhawks!

Minh
(Proud American veteran ... ashamed of his government, but loves his country.)

 

[Timebuilder]

??? So you are saying we should start preparing for WWIII? The world against the United States?

Let's skip the hyperbole of your posts and I'll give you a quotable quote: we should mainatain our sovereignty as long as we can, to be good stewards of our liberty.

Sounds like your reasoning for hating Muslims and countries like France

I don't hate Muslims or France. I feel sorry for them, particularly the Muslims. They have been mislead by evil.

I guess the U.S. will feel the same as France does in 200 years when China becomes the Empire of the planet.

If nothing else hapens, I would agree with you.

However, I don't think that nothing else will happen...



Snakum, I sure hope that those checks were cut at Langley. No better people to making the contacts that are now allowing us to be victorious in Iraq.

I'll be sure to thank them when I get the chance.

 

[kevdog]

TB - is your 55 mostly DC or AC powered?

 

[Timebuilder]

Well, if by "mostly" you mean current, then it's DC. If you mean voltage, then it's AC. There is a large inverter panel in the tail that also has the once and done current limiters. Most of the instrumentation and such is AC powered. It's not a bad system, other than the fact that it has been redesigned a little and is somewhat less than intuitive.

And I wish it was my 55, and I wish I was still flying it. My last flight was in May.

Is there a special reason you ask?

 

[kevdog]

I just wanted to see if you knew anything at all, or just talked out of your a$$ the whole time.

 

[Timebuilder]

Not any more. I stopped doing that after being a democrat for 23 years.

I should have known that your question, about a plane of all things, was a setup.

I should have guessed from your profile. Silly me.

 

[bart]

I am sick of hearing everyone say we are pissing off the world. We are not doing near enough to piss them off.

We still have not invaded Syria, or Iran, or assassinated Yasser Arafat. I would say we have a long way to go to really piss people off around the world.

Most European leaders are like spoiled children railing against the US as they would a parent that told them to be home by 11.

Unfortunately, they haven't learned how to function in their own best interest yet, so we will take care of it for them.

As for the decline of France, it was their unprincipled decision making (if you don't know what that means, review most decisions made by Clinton as President) that brought about their fall from world power. Well that and not standing up to a despot when they had the chance.

Guess the weasels would like to see us make the same mistakes they did... hmmm.

Y'all have a great day!!!