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International Flights in jeopardy on March 6

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limpyoke said:
ICAO now requires an "English Proficiency" endorsement. All flight crews must have the endorsement by March 5,2008 to fly international flights. My guess is that most flights will be canceled on March 6,2008.

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat.../info08008.pdf
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:laugh: No way. They may violate thousands of US pilots fluent in English, but they will NEVER cancell flights for this. The ATA will see to that. No government official is going to let millions of passengers get stranded over some stupid government rule, even though they will happilly punish pilots for not obeying this lame sandbag of a rule.

I'm all for enforcing English as the official language of aviation (as well as in the US as a national language) but you don't have to worry about flights being cancelled for US operators. Its not going to happen.
 
pipe said:
Speaking of the Chinese, they really might violate people over this.

PIPE
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The Chinese need our employment infrastructure far more than we need their cheap trinkets. Just like their hallow threat of dumping all their dollars on the market and shock devaluing our currenty if we keep making a stink about their lead paint, poison toothpaste and dog food and now bad jet fuel. They won't do squat because they can't. Their entire economy is built on US consumerisim. We are wearing the pants in this relationship. Its time to get tough with these arrogant second world piss ants.
 
limpyoke said:
ICAO now requires an "English Proficiency" endorsement. All flight crews must have the endorsement by March 5,2008 to fly international flights. My guess is that most flights will be canceled on March 6,2008.

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviat.../info08008.pdf
Click to expand...


Baloney. It might be a "requirement" but not having the new license with the endorsement isn't going to stop a darn thing. The rule will be ignored by the Europeans. Although I wish the pencil neck geeks in EU officialdom would strictly enforce it. I could use a bunch more time at home next month.
 
Just listening to JFK ground tonite, I have heard nearly every non-US carrier would FAIL.

And you know damned good and well that these crews will be flying next week - yes, just some stupid rule that some pencil-necked geek came up with.
 
In my airline, many have failed twice. Don't know what the airline will do with them. Some are worse than the Chinese......
 
And the JFK ground controllers don't help much.
15-part taxi clearances as fast as they can possibly say it in a Brooklyn accent doesn't help.
 
Draginass said:
15-part taxi clearances as fast as they can possibly say it in a Brooklyn accent doesn't help.
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You's got a problem wid dat? Hey, check out Johnny Bagodonuts ovah hea!! ********************in' guy.

Ohh!
 
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dispatchguy said:
Just listening to JFK ground tonite, I have heard nearly every non-US carrier would FAIL.

And you know damned good and well that these crews will be flying next week - yes, just some stupid rule that some pencil-necked geek came up with.
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There are crews at several US regionals that probably should fail as well.
 
If it is a requirement to read, write, speak and understand English to hold a US Airman certificate how does this affect me/us?
 
I heard there are levels that need to be achieved like minimum of level 4 to fly international and 6 being expert. I don't know where "English Proficient" would fall under.
 
Nonsense, this ICAO rule went into effect back in 2003. They gave member countries until March 2008 to comply and have already agreed to extend the compliance date until 2011. There's not going to be anything happening on March 6.
 
Varig said:
I heard there are levels that need to be achieved like minimum of level 4 to fly international and 6 being expert. I don't know where "English Proficient" would fall under.
Click to expand...

The FAA has stated that they consider all holders of US pilot certificates to be "English Proficient" enough to meet the ICAO level 4 standard.

To satisfy the ICAO language proficiency endorsement requirement, on February 11, 2008, the FAA is making available replacement certificates for affected airmen with the additional endorsement – "English Proficient". All affected airman certificate holders are considered to have met the ICAO English language proficiency requirements based on the [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]eligibility [/FONT]requirements of parts 61, 63 and 65. The FAA’s issuance of an "English Proficient" endorsement on a U.S. airman certificate attests that the airman meets the Level 4 operational standards found in ICAO Annex 1 (a copy of the ICAO Level 4 criteria is attached).​
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Just the same, I went to the FAA site and ordered a fresh ATP with an english language endorsement. Don't want to end up in some Mexican prison for failing to comply with an ICAO mandate...

Nonetheless, I think it's rotten that the alert came out on Feb 13, 2008 and is supposed to take effect 3 weeks later on March 5th!!!
 
My home country (US f-in A) speaks English, my certificate requires that I know English, and anyone who can read my certificate should know this or else they shouldn't be allowed to see my certificate in the first place. The bottom line: The FAA stands to make over $100k off of us. Next year's endorsement will be "Flight proficient" and will cost $4.

I suggest we all take a few minutes to write about this total inefficiency to:

Mr. Robert A. Sturgell
Acting Administrator
Federal Aviation Administration
800 Independence Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20591
 
VAPOR said:
My home country (US f-in A) speaks English, my certificate requires that I know English, and anyone who can read my certificate should know this or else they shouldn't be allowed to see my certificate in the first place. The bottom line: The FAA stands to make over $100k off of us. Next year's endorsement will be "Flight proficient" and will cost $4.

I suggest we all take a few minutes to write about this total inefficiency to:

Mr. Robert A. Sturgell
Acting Administrator
Federal Aviation Administration
800 Independence Avenue, SW
Washington, DC 20591
Click to expand...

Well...the new certificates were supposed to be free for those that required it. That's what I told a few months ago by the Inspector in DC in charge of the compliance. However, I had to pay $2 when I requested the new certificate. Maybe they are planning a refund.

Anyway...I am somewhat of an expert on this whole subject. I'm flying Irish aircraft using a validation from the IAA to use my FAA certificates, and the IAA is making us have this on our certificates by the March 5th deadline. However, ICAO has effectively extended the deadline to 2011. The FAA is now compliant with the ICAO rule, but it's going to take some time to get everyone to change their certificates. The rule will not be enforced by contracting states until the 2011 deadline, so everyone can still fly on March 6th.

I know everyone was looking for a paid vacation this March, but unfortunately you'll still have to show up for work.:crying:
 
However, ICAO has effectively extended the deadline to 2011.

Do you have a link with that info? I can't find it on the ICAO site.
 
Stukadriver said:
Do you have a link with that info? I can't find it on the ICAO site.
Click to expand...

I don't have a link that says this, because ICAO isn't saying this. However, because they are extending it for some contracting states, they have to allow an extension for all...Regardless if the state says they'll be compliant by 3/5/08 (the US). Contracting states can enforce the 3/5/08 deadline if they want, but there would be hell to pay if they did!

Here is a direct quote from a email I got from Lance Nuckolls...the man in charge of FAA compliance in DC.

"ICAO has acknowledged and informed all the Contracting Member States to the ICAO Convention to the effect that not all Contracting States will be incompliance by the 5 March 2008 implementation date. In essence, ICAO Assembly Resolution A36-11 urges those Contracting States who are not in a position to comply with the Language Proficiency (LP) requirements by 5 March 2008 date to post a plan of action to the ICAO website. Those same States then will have until 5 March 2011 to comply. In addition, ICAO is offering workshops for States needing assistance in developing an implementation plan. Therefore, ICAO has, in effect, moved the language proficiency implementation date out to 5 March 2011 for all Contracting Member States, even for those Contracting States who said that they will be able to comply with the 5 March 2008 date.

Unfortunately, there is nothing the FAA can do if an aviation authority of a ICAO Contracting State elects to enforce compliance by 5 March 2008, even if the U.S. or some other State is not ready by then and an airmen does not have his/her certificate endorsed accordingly. If an issue involving a U.S. citizen arises as a result, resolution falls within the purview of the U.S. State Department."
 
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AvroJockey said:
if an issue involving a U.S. citizen arises as a result, resolution falls within the purview of the U.S. State Department."
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In other words, if youre flying to bumble-*************************-land after that date, I would have the industrial size tube of KY packed in your crewbag, just in case some Al-Barney Al-Fife wants to use his one bullet.

Oh, but wait, dont make it more than 3 oz.
 

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