International Carriers' Rights in US?

[brucek]

I'm a private pilot with an interest in the airline industry (never likely to fly there at my age ).

For foreign carriers who enter the US at a port of entry (eg. British Airways at JFK), is there any option to fly the aircraft to subsequent airports within the US (only uplifting pax on the original inbound from EGLL). Like EGLL-JKF-ORD?

How does this impact foreign cargo operators (like CargoLux)?

Thanks,

Bruce.
BJC

 

[chperplt]

If I'm not mistaken, foreign carriers can land at JFK and continue on to other destinations within the US provided they do not pick up any passengers in US cities. Picking up pax in US cities for drop-off in other US cities would be cabotage.

 

[Vik]

Yes, foreign carriers can land in the US, and continue w/o picking up new pax to another destination in the US.

British Airways had or still has a flight from LHR to PHX to SAN (747-400).

 

[brucek]

Thanks all, for the interesting info.

Bruce.
BJC, Jeffco, CO

 

[jsoceanlord]

about 15 years ago i flew on a china air 747 from london to zurich (bought a ticket)!

 

[surplus1]

brucek,

If you are really interested in the details of what airlines can do in foreign countries, look up the ICAO treaty. There you will find what is permitted under the "five freedoms".

It's been a while since I've actually read this so I may be off a little, but I think your question is answered by the 5th Freedom.

The ICAO Treaty was signed in Chicago. Of the signatory countries, the one the complies least of all happens to be the United States.

When an foreign airline carries passengers originating within a foreign country to another point in the same foreign country, we call that Cabotage. Many in our government have supported the idea of permiting cabotage within the US. If that every happens, the US airline industry (as we know it) will come to an end.

Example: British Airways, flies London to New York, picks up passengers in New York and takes them to LA. = cabotage.

BA, flies LHR - JFK - LAX, but all the passengers board in London = 5th Freedom.

 

[brucek]

Thanks Surplus1, that's some very good info on that treaty.

Do you think that cabotage (as you very well explained it, thanks) is likely to occur here? (I gather it does not in other countries, except within Europe, maybe). Given that many international airlines are government funded (any more), that's a rather sobering thought.

Bruce.
BJC, Jeffco, CO

 

[surplus1]

Do you think that cabotage (as you very well explained it, thanks) is likely to occur here? (I gather it does not in other countries, except within Europe, maybe). Given that many international airlines are government funded (any more), that's a rather sobering thought.
Bruce.
BJC, Jeffco, CO

Well, if a certain Republican Senator of note were to get his way, cabotage might very well occur here. However, I do not know a single airline pilot (who knows what cabotage is) that would support that. It may well result in an all out "war" with pilot unions if the government went that route.

To my knowledge, it does not occur within Europe either. Perhaps to a limited extent in Africa.

At one time a US airline was engaged in cabotage in Germany. The airline was PanAmerican which had a fleet of 727's, based in Germany, conducting point to point service within Germany and to other European points.

This PanAm deal was a carry over from WWII. After the war, all German flight operations were banned by the allies and Lufthansa was grounded. That's when it began. However, it continued until the 80's. It wasn't something that the Germans wanted, it was imposed on them due to the war and the extended occupation that followed.

Glad to be of help.