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Interesting possible concept for new frax service

onthebeach

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In another thread someone contrasted the current situation at NetJets with the old-line carriers before the low-cost carriers (i.e. WN) entered the market and changed the model.

That got me thinking...

Could there be a business model for a "low-cost" frax carrier? I don't mean "no-frills," shares owners won't buy or fly in a dump operation...nor should they.

However, as has been pointed out elsewhere, there is much waste at NetJets and the others are undoubtedly the same.

So, what would be the model for a "lean" frax that would be a great place to work, highly profitable, and sought after by the shares buying public (both those who have already bought shares, and those that could be induced to do so for an efficient deal, such as we are discussing)?

...and at the outset, let's eliminate from all consideration the concept of screwing over the pilot group in pay, benefits, and awful working conditions...that's already being tried at the existing frax's.

Suggestions, anyone? For starters, how about a single-aircraft fleet...single pilot only required...no type required...FO included, but for safety & service only.
 

Some Dude

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First suggestion, Don't have Dick Shamtulli pick the management team.
 

FredGarvin

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Wait I know....

Start a company with a bunch of dedicated people who try to out work the competition. Build it up through the hard work, dedication and personal sacarfice of ALL the employees and the owner. Sell it to a world reknown investor.

Then, hire in a bunch of disgruntuled ex airline guys who see a quick buck opportunity. Have them decide that the company has unlimited resorces and it's just a matter of extorting it out of those rich guys. Next have them piss off all the other employee groups and the aviation industry as a whole. Watch them press their demands by alienating the ownership group with truck driver tactics. Then finnally screwup one of the most stable jobs in general avaiation all in the name of personal greed. Put a whole group of people out of work. Move on and bitch how the next jobs sucks worse than the old one.
 

Some Dude

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Or you could hire a bunch of dedicated pilots WHO DID BUILD A COMPANY. WHO DID PURCHASE FUEL ON THEIR PERSONAL CREDIT CARDS DURING THE LEAN TIMES JUST TO TRY TO KEEP THE COMPANY AFLOAT. Then you can keep promising those loyal employees (who worked 14 hours a day 21 days a month to help build this fortune for yourself and your fellow crooks.) that you will make this the "best job in aviation." Then stick it up their butts. Or just hire Fred Gavin, CMHTroll, Family Guy and watch your company go down the crapper with their inept management skills pushing all your LOYAL CUSTOMERS AWAY THAT HAVE BEEN WITH YOU SINCE THE BEGININNG BUT ARE LEAVING BECAUSE CUSTOMER SERVICE HAS BEEN TERRIBLE AND THEIR TIRED OF BEING LIED TO BY OWNER SERVICES AND SALESMEN.Good Luck!
 

Geronimo4497

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onthebeach said:
Suggestions, anyone? For starters, how about a single-aircraft fleet...single pilot only required...no type required...FO included, but for safety & service only.

It has already been done! AlphaFlying (PlaneSense) with the PC-12. Great company with an even better group of people working/running the show. I work for them, and love it here. Do I want to fly a jet, you ask? Well, sort of. That would be great for my career, but I think QOL would suffer. That and the fact that I am having way too much fun here. :cool:

Avantair has a similar idea, also, but they have now thrown the Premier into the mix along with the Avanti.
 

Some guy

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There are others on the way, but a different type of service. I don't have any references at the moment as I am hard at work trying to be lazy.

What I am talking about is the air taxi services that will be here in 5-10 years. Single pilot Mini-jets, less than $1m a piece, 1000 mile range, (I think that's what I read) easy and cheap to maintain. 4-6 pax capacity. It will be more expensive than airline tickets, but reasonable enough that the market for the industry is 100x that of the current frax programs. People want to go from point A to point B without the airline hassles, or having to make 3 connections to get there. I think people would pay for that. I would pay quite a bit extra just to not have the headache.

Anyone else know any more about this?
 

English

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I used to work at a company that liked to sell itself as a "regional fractional". They owned 3 Citationjets and tried to do what all the new VLJ upstarts are trying to do. They weren't very successful. They were only able to sell to a core group of people that just happened to all be in business together.
 

atpcliff

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Hi!

Dayjet's plan is to have a very complex software program that will match individuals up and plan an aircraft schedule to efficiently carry individuals where and when they want to go by combining trips.

Interesting...Will it worK?

Cliff
HKS
 
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Publishers

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On another thread I gave an example of the Dayjet plan and why it had a chance to work. The main reason is the low number of people required to cover the cost of operation.

One way to look at it-- how hard is it to get 11 people who want to go to the same place at the same time in a Gulfstream @ a $40million aircraft versus 2.3 in a $2.0m aircraft.

Dayjet uses time windows rather than specific times, single pilot under 600 miles from no frills Dayports. There is no room for luggage so this is really designed for road warriors with a light bag or Day trippers.
 

flyjetspeed

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The Website said they will be based out of southern New England anyone heard what Airport yet?
 

atpcliff

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Army RW

mess up-sorry!
 

surveypilot

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flyjetspeed said:
The Website said they will be based out of southern New England anyone heard what Airport yet?
From www.dayjet.com

Where will DayJet offer its "Per-Seat, On-Demand" jet service?

DayJet is still actively evaluating potential service regions throughout the U.S. and has not yet announced specific details around its initial region of operations.
 

surveypilot

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Publishers said:
On another thread I gave an example of the Dayjet plan and why it had a chance to work. The main reason is the low number of people required to cover the cost of operation.

One way to look at it-- how hard is it to get 11 people who want to go to the same place at the same time in a Gulfstream @ a $40million aircraft versus 2.3 in a $2.0m aircraft.

Dayjet uses time windows rather than specific times, single pilot under 600 miles from no frills Dayports. There is no room for luggage so this is really designed for road warriors with a light bag or Day trippers.
According to http://www.eclipseaviation.com/inthenews/detail_05.htm?content_id=787 the break even factor is actually 1.3. Which is good because there will only be three passenger seats with a crew of two.

"This grouping of passengers is important, given that DayJet said it needs to carry an average of 1.3 passengers a trip to break even. The example above going from A to C to B with two passengers constitutes one trip, meaning it would be profitable according to the company’s estimates.

DayJet’s Eclipse 500s will be configured with five seats, three of which will be for passenger use. Each aircraft will be flown with two qualified pilots, who will work set shifts each weekday and will start and end this shift at their base airport."
 

Some Dude

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What's the pay going to be? Hopefully more than a cab driver. Of course a cab driver makes more than a NJA pilot.
 

Some guy

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Some Dude said:
What's the pay going to be? Hopefully more than a cab driver. Of course a cab driver makes more than a NJA pilot.
This thread wasn't intended as a feel sorry for me NetJets bash session. Go elsewhere.
 

surveypilot

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From Dayjet's website:

We offer some of the most competitive benefits in our industry to attract the brightest and most passionate people around, and to ensure working here is rewarding and enjoyable.

Headquartered in Delray Beach, Florida (South Florida), we enjoy a relaxed lifestyle with flexible hours and outstanding benefits that include:



[size=+0]
  • Competitive salaries
  • Equity/stock options
  • Company matched 401K
  • Medical/dental/vision/life insurance
  • Paid holidays
  • Paid time off
  • Ongoing professional development
  • Business-casual atmosphere
  • Work/life balance
Of course they are still at least a year away from being operational, and I am sure that you will not see actual salary numbers anytime soon.
[/size]
 

El Chupacabra

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You have to think that the pay will be competitive, otherwise people will leave quickly to frax.
 

Some Dude

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Some Guy bite me. I was just asking what the pay was. I don't need pity. Just some info.
 

Publishers

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All the people they have hired are for the most part Tech people. I have heard him on more than one occassion and did not hear him say two pilot operation although he did say they would be home every night. This is well over a year away for pilots.
 
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