Interesting JB ALPA OC email

[Hair-on-Fire]

Point is. keep a leash on JBALPA idiots and you may swing some more votes your way. Maybe not.

Amen

The pro-union guys also threw a fit when the found out the BOBs were keeping a list. Now they're doing the same.

 

[BeachBummer]

Criminal Negligence........Are you f'ing kidding my.......

To the OC,
You have some real idiots out there trying to push the Union Ethos that havn't a clue!! There are quit a few that are UNDERMINING THE DESIRES OF THE EDUCATED MEMBERS OF THE OC!!!!! In their defense, some have never worked for a Union carrier, but as the OC, you should put a lid on the morons. All it does is put off the people that are not the "predetermined voter"

And this BOB vs ALPA, ALPA vs. BOB is RETARDED!!!!!!!! I get both mailings, I give BOTH their due diligence........The "overly passionate" OC'ers further undermine their cause by the petty shots taken at the BOB's. They are just guys that believe in the status quo, and you are guys that believe in change......wait, i've heard that campaign slogan before........
Point is. keep a leash on JBALPA idiots and you may swing some more votes your way. Maybe not.

This is a problem and we try to keep a leash on it best we can. Problem is, is the vocal minority usually are the loudest and dumbest BOB's and ALPA. Do your best to weed through the crap from bothsides. While I feel the frustration as much as the others we have to keep a cool head on and be factual.

The company is doing a fine job sending "fence sitters" our direction.

Stay cool dudes, it's a marathon not a sprint.

 

[Dizel8]

Amen

The pro-union guys also threw a fit when the found out the BOBs were keeping a list. Now they're doing the same.

I think the infamous BoB list was a little bit different, you see, one doesn't get into trouble with the company for being anti union, quite the contrary, but you already knew that!

 

[BeachBummer]

Amen

The pro-union guys also threw a fit when the found out the BOBs were keeping a list. Now they're doing the same.

Your name is going to be on a list... like it or not. ALPA keeps list, so does BOB's IPJB, SWAPA, JBPA, jetblue, delta. They're out there. big brother wants to know, deciding who your big brother is is key!

 

[hawk996]

Amen

The pro-union guys also threw a fit when the found out the BOBs were keeping a list. Now they're doing the same.

The JBALPA list can not be seen by other OC pilots, so it is very different then the BOB list. I can not see what other ALPA OC members have written down or how the pilot feels about ALPA.

The BOB list clearly showed the Pilot's name, how he/she felt and if he/she was on the BOB's side. That list was emailed using the company email server to all BOB's(also sent to the CP's office and upper management).

The ALPA list is only to be seen by ALPA HQ only. Other ALPA OC members can not see the information, so it is very different.

I have not asked anyone how they feel about ALPA unless they brought it up first. I then ask them if they have been assessed yet and if they want me to put their info into the database.

I respect what other pilot's want and will alway's be respectful of the data.

 

[Dizel8]

Cool. I'm going to give a different opinion every other time I fly with somebody with an ALPA lanyard, just for fun.

Awesome, just like the company gives you a different interpretation of just about every thing they say when it comes to your pay and benefits.

 

[Dave's kid]

I think the infamous BoB list was a little bit different, you see, one doesn't get into trouble with the company for being anti union, quite the contrary, but you already knew that!

As soon as someone is disciplined for being pro union, let me know. Last I heard Sorbie and Evans still had jobs.

 

[Dizel8]

As soon as someone is disciplined for being pro union, let me know. Last I heard Sorbie and Evans still had jobs.

Do you think it's likely, that those two gentlemen would be selected Check airmen if they applied for the position and there were openings, even if they were the best qualified?

By trouble, I wasn't implying people got fired, however, known union supporters are not managements favorite people, would you agree?

 

[hawk996]

Do you think it's likely, that those two gentlemen would be selected Check airmen if they applied for the position and there were openings, even if they were the best qualified?

By trouble, I wasn't implying people got fired, however, known union supporters are not managements favorite people, would you agree?

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately that is the way poor management wants it. It's not the pilot's fault they seek out a third party. Management needs to ask why we are seeking out a third party and not just blaming the pilot group on being greedy.

Dave Barger had his chance, hired a third party and that third party is why the fence sitters are jumping over that fence and running toward ALPA.

Read the JTTP's, the VP's/CP's and PVC emails, you really think they are written by Dave, Sandy, Craig and the PVC? They are not, they are written by Jenny and F&H.

Management caused this problem, not the pilot group. So if our management team hate's union supporters, they are placing blame on the the wrong group.

 

[BeachBummer]

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately that is the way poor management wants it. It's not the pilot's fault they seek out a third party. Management needs to ask why we are seeking out a third party and not just blaming the pilot group on being greedy.

Dave Barger had his chance, hired a third party and that third party is why the fence sitters are jumping over that fence and running toward ALPA.

Read the JTTP's, the VP's/CP's and PVC emails, you really think they are written by Dave, Sandy, Craig and the PVC? They are not, they are written by Jenny and F&H.

Management caused this problem, not the pilot group. So if our management team hate's union supporters, they are placing blame on the the wrong group.

Spot on!
From our CEO's mouth: "If the employees unionize managment has failed" Dave Barger

Welcome to:

 

[tzflyer]

He is simply fustrated that pilots willfully hand over control of thier careers to managment, who do not have thier interests.

I feel I must point out that all employees, including pilots, futures always rest in the hands of managment whether they have a union or not. Unfortunatley, bad managment seems to be the rule in the airline business rather than the exception. That is why managment needs to look inward when they find themselves facing this kind of situation.
A union will represent the pilots but not be able to run the company. A realistic view is required here.
As for Ford and Harrison, I do believe that both the best and worst pilot contracts in history have been negotiated against them and I would rather have that known evil than some unkown evil. ALPA has the F&H playbook down rather well by now I think.

]

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

[
I feel I must point out that all employees, including pilots, futures always rest in the hands of managment whether they have a union or not.

Agreed, but I am talking about the terms in which a pilot is employed....

Unfortunatley, bad managment seems to be the rule in the airline business rather than the exception. That is why managment needs to look inward when they find themselves facing this kind of situation.
A union will represent the pilots but not be able to run the company. A realistic view is required here.

Agreed. Pilots don't run airlines.... and having a representation does suggest the union wants too...

 

[WayBack]

ALPA= False sense of security.
Your contract is as worthless as the paper it's written on.
You'll just become more frustrated when you realize ALPA really does nothing, and you're throwing your pay check at them.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

ALPA= False sense of security.
Your contract is as worthless as the paper it's written on.
You'll just become more frustrated when you realize ALPA really does nothing, and you're throwing your pay check at them.

I suppose the same can be said of the PEA I currently have. The difference is that with a union, I actually have a say in something, rather than having no say whatsoever. Last I checked, I did not get to vote on the new FSM, and I was never invited to any PVC meetings.

I have auto insurance for a reason. It's there when and if I need it. I have health insurance for the same reason. I never enjoy dealing with insurance companies, and I sure don't like paying for them. But when and if something happens, whether it be a car accident, or health issues, at least I have some type of protection in place. Someone will go to bat for me. I know ALPA cannot solve everything. But at least ALPA has the resources. Although there are no guarantees, I would rather have someone in my corner than no one at all when and if need them.

My career is too important not to have some type of insurance in place. I'll gladly pay for this. At least I can deduct the dues on my tax return.

 

[BeachBummer]

ALPA= False sense of security.
Your contract is as worthless as the paper it's written on.
You'll just become more frustrated when you realize ALPA really does nothing, and you're throwing your pay check at them.

The quote at the bottom of your post says it all.

 

[Regul8r]

I have auto insurance for a reason. It's there when and if I need it. I have health insurance for the same reason. I never enjoy dealing with insurance companies, and I sure don't like paying for them. But when and if something happens, whether it be a car accident, or health issues, at least I have some type of protection in place. Someone will go to bat for me. I know ALPA cannot solve everything. But at least ALPA has the resources. Although there are no guarantees, I would rather have someone in my corner than no one at all when and if need them.

My career is too important not to have some type of insurance in place. I'll gladly pay for this. At least I can deduct the dues on my tax return.

What kind of "insurance" do you really expect for 2% of your pay? Fear mongering ALPA Kool-Aide aside, that was a nicely regurgitated paragraph from the ALPA Pamphlet.

Look around you at how much "control" ALPA has bestowed on your fellow ALPA pilots. Let the excuses commence...

 

[Regul8r]

Your contract is as worthless as the paper it's written on.

The quote at the bottom of your post says it all.

History, The RLA, and Bankruptcy court judges support his statement. What's your excuse?

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

What kind of "insurance" do you really expect for 2% of your pay? Fear mongering ALPA Kool-Aide aside, that was a nicely regurgitated paragraph from the ALPA Pamphlet.

Look around you at how much "control" ALPA has bestowed on your fellow ALPA pilots. Let the excuses commence...

Fear mongering? Really? Obviously you couldn't read my post without creating your own spin from it. If there is a pamphlet out there reiterating what I have said, I have yet to read or see it. What I wrote is how I feel. It's as simple as that. You insinuate that if I, or anyone else for that matter, would like to see ALPA on the property, then we are under their "control?" So let me get this straight......if someone's opinion differs from yours, then they are obviously under some type of "control?" Talk about fear mongering. The hypocrisy in your statement speaks for itself.

I also love your statement at the end......"let the excuses commence." Now there's a nice invitation to a pissing contest! No thanks. Ridiculing people because you disagree with them does not promote open minded discussions, yet instead shows lack of maturity, professionalism, and respect.

I hope that everyone out there educates themselves on the issues at hand by engaging BOTH sides in a respectful manner. In the end, all you can do is make the best decision possible for you and your family. Fly safe!

 

[BeachBummer]

Well, if I had it my way, we would just start the card campaign tomorrow and see what the masses say! But that's just my opinion. I'm sure some of those involved will have differing opinions.

On with the opinion making!

 

[Regul8r]

It's as simple as that. You insinuate that if I, or anyone else for that matter, would like to see ALPA on the property, then we are under their "control?"

No...there is a faction of cheerleaders stumping for ALPA. One of the on going themes is taking back "control" of your career. My question is: What control?

Sure, it sounds good...but it's just an empty campaign slogan (figuratively speaking)

Weigh and explore ALL options available before going home with the easiest slut (ALPA) at the party