Insurance Requirements?

[Catbert]

I'm often told by companies and their pilots that they can't hire someone unless they have xxxx hrs TT, yyyy hrs PIC, or zzzz hrs multi, etc.

Yet, I have friends that have been hired as SIC with ridiculously low time.

How much of a constraint do insurance companies put on companies hiring low time applicants? What are some minimums your insurance companies impose?

 

[pilotyip]

Depends upon the insurance company, there is good chance at an air carrier they cover who ever the company elects to hire. At our company we have insurance minimums for F/O on the DA-20 and the DC-9, but the insurance company lets us waive the minimums on either airplane if we feel it is necessary.

 

[mike1mc]

Some operators have open policies such as "Any pilot as approved by XXX", some list actual TT, PIC, etc. minimums, and others have named polciies which actually list the names of all the pilots approved. Varies with insurance company, aircraft, and negotiated contract.

 

[DrProc]

When I got my first job flying a jet under 135 I had about 1100 hours tt. The insurance wouldn't cover me, unless I got a type in the a/c. Every company is different though.

 

[RedBehren]

Until just this year, many reputable and "good" operators were carrying "pilots as approved", meaning anyone the flight department management felt they wanted to put in the airplane. We're being told that our company just lost this "right" this month on our new policy.

Dunno if that helps or not.

 

[Catbert]

It all helps. I'm about to the point where I'll be knocking on doors of some 135 operators. The more informed I am before-hand, the better.

 

[MMO 0.705]

I think people play the insurance card when they are looking for an excuse....I have seen people make the insurance work when they really wanted to.....there is always a way

 

[NoPax]

I think people play the insurance card when they are looking for an excuse....I have seen people make the insurance work when they really wanted to.....there is always a way

Very true.

I sometimes think that the minimums are posted to prevent C-152 instructors from landing a jet job...earn your dues! (j/k)

 

[Flyerjosh]

ANYBODY is insurable. It just comes down to how much you want to pay to be insured (or the company).

I would say though that a generally good rule of thumb is ATP minimums for jets operating under part 91, with both crew generally being type rated.

For airlines and part 135, typically between 1000 and 1500 hours TT, depending on the type of equipment.

Ultimately it comes down to whatever a particular company can negotiate with an underwriter, and how much they are willing to pay for coverage for a "higher risk" pilot.

 

[Phantom Phlyer]

ANYBODY is insurable. It just comes down to how much you want to pay to be insured (or the company).

I would say though that a generally good rule of thumb is ATP minimums for jets operating under part 91, with both crew generally being type rated.

For airlines and part 135, typically between 1000 and 1500 hours TT, depending on the type of equipment.

Ultimately it comes down to whatever a particular company can negotiate with an underwriter, and how much they are willing to pay for coverage for a "higher risk" pilot.

Flyer Josh is essentially correct -- almost anybody is insurable under the right circumstances. Can't speak to 91 minuimums very well but can say that many of the larger charter operators set minimums pretty high even for the FO.

In other words, we can insure lower time pilots but cannot charter to a lot of larger operators unless the FO has 2000+ hours. Less than 2000 and no type rating pretty well eliminates the crew from consideration by many of the larger operators.

Makes it hard -- lots of owners would like to hire younger guys at a lower salary but then find that the crew does not meet the eligibility requirements for many big charter operatiors.

 

[CapnVegetto]

It really depends. I just got a guy insured in our jet that was 50 hours short of the min TT, 250 short of multi, no time in type, when the insurance open pilot mins are 1500 TT, 500 multi, 100 turbine, and 25 in type along with school. They approved him as long as we sent him to school, although it took quite a bit of convincing. Of all the quotes we got, only one company would approve him, and ironically, this company offered us the best rate.

You can insure anybody in anything, it'll just cost you more money. And sim training is a given. It's gettting nearly impossible to get someone by without it.

 

[HawkerF/O]

You can insure anybody in anything, it'll just cost you more money. And sim training is a given. It's gettting nearly impossible to get someone by without it.

If you have the right broker, even school can be waived with no financial penalty. Never would I reccommend doing it that way, but I have seen that recently in several instances. It's all about the broker and his relationship with the underwriter. Most guys don't want to hear that, but it is how the industry works. If you have to beg and plead, then you are dealing with a broker who has a crap relationship with the underwriter and that broker probably has clients who have had claims. Get a new broker. Also, a guy that sells home, boat, car and Aviation insurance is not a broker. He is a regular insurance salesman that just increased your Fixed Operating Costs through inexperience and a lack of knowledge.

There is a guy flying a CL60 P135 out of Kansas City as a co-pilot. His training? 3 Bounces. Oh, and he has been to school, sure, just not on the CL60. And don't think for a minute that Capt flying with him is some CL60 Ace. He'll tell you he is, but the truth is he is nothing more than a ego driven stick hog with no business sense and the finest inventory of snake oil this side of the Mississippi. Flying charter in a CL60 and not sending a guy to school. Now that's class.

 

[siegelaviation]

Hawker F/O:

I know EXACTLY who you are talking about! Lol.

And he does have some mighty fine snake oil. I almost bought some once....