Insurance requirements (Navajo)

[sauce]

I was approached to possibly fly a Piper Navajo for a small corporation. My question is, will I be able to be insuranced at "reasonable rate" with only 1445 tt and 90 multi?

My multi experience is in Duchese, 414, 421, B-58, B-55 and a few hours in a BE-100. I hate to miss out on this job by being a few hours short of multi experience.

I was referred to the owner(I have yet to meet) by a trusted friend of his so I think I have a pretty good shot if the insurance will be affordable at my times, if not, they will probably look for a different pilot.

Thanks in advance for replies, fly smart

 

[flywithruss]

Insurance is always the hard part.

Your total time probably isn't too bad, though carriers would like to see more. Your ME time could be problematic, especially with no time in type. I think Simcom offers a course in the Navajo ... plan on going. I am almost certain that any insurer will want some sort of formal training to cover you.

I think you very likely could be approved by the insurer; it will just be a question of how much training they want and how much premium they will want to cover you.

Good luck!

R

 

[jetdriven]

i had a friend who wanted to buy a baron and he was told to have 1500TT 150 ME and 50 in type plus simcom or FS before they would even consider insuring him.
even then it was 15K per year.

good luck.

 

[Sunnfun]

A friend of mine flies for a corp. Their open pilot policy (= no individual approval) requires 2500TT/1000ME/300 in type plus SimCom-School. If one has more time in type, you might get lower ME-Mins. With higher ME and/or TT one might be accepted with lower time in type. But this is pretty much the going rate.

With all those furloughed pilots on the street plus all the retirees looking for something to do after playing golf, corp's have no problem hiring. Therefore no reason for the insurance to lower their mins.

I know it sucks, but that's the way it is right now. I don't think you would get approval. I know with your time you wouldn't even get approved as an MEI at some smaller schools...

I am there myself. Was rejected by insurance because of "to little time". I have 2400TT/400ME/30 in type. Plane in Question was a C-421.

Sorry.

Cheers, Sun'n Fun

 

[skyking1976]

It will also depend if the corporation that owns the airplane is operating it Pt. 91 or 135. I got my first "Hoe" flying job with 1300TT and 700 ME and no time in type. Of course this was for a Pt. 135 operator with an approved "In House" training program. Don't count yourself out yet.

As for the furloughee part of the equasion, a smart employer will tend to shy away from pilots that don't want to give up recall rights at an airline. Most corporate operators know that they cannot pay a salary that is competitive to a Pt. 121 operator. But, then again, some people will spend a lot of money on us pilots.

Best of luck...
Skyking

 

[Timebuilder]

I used to fly a Nav, so I'll chime in here. The important part is why I say USED to fly one. The operator, who was sort of casually in the charter business, decided to sell both his Chieftains.

He had just received some info from his broker. He was already paying about $28k per year per airplane, and was told that he could expect to see this go up about 30% next year. Ouch.

His pilots had enough time and experience, not only in type but in these individual aircraft tail numbers.

What a mess.

 

[BamBamJet]

Timebuilder, I am in the aviation insurance business. I have seen a lot of guys with your time get into Navajos with the following requirements needing to be met. You will need to get around 5-10 hours dual and 5 solo prior to passengers. If the insurance broker shops around like they should there are a few companies that wont make you go to school in it every year. You will just need an IPC in the make and model. Hope it helps and good luck!

 

[cjh]

I'll chime in here as well, as I own and fly a Navajo. I've owned the aircraft for a little over two years now. My total time when I bought the plane was around 450 hours, and 300+ of that was multi. So, I brought to the table "high" multi time within the parameters of low total time.

The first year insurance ran about $7000. The requirement was that I attend FS and get 25 hours dual. Since then, insurance has dropped to about half, and last year rather than go to FS I got an approval to do a detailed review in my plane with an instructor also experienced in Navajos. I used the one I flew the dual time with and also use for periodic reviews in between renewals.

Part of the insurance requrements are also going to be based on the amount of coverage the owner carries. The higher the potential payout, the steeper the requirements.

Best of luck. The Navajo is a nice reliable plane.

 

[Timebuilder]

Bam Bam, I had much less time than I have now when I flew the Navajo, and I was not on the certificate as a PIC.

My point was all of the PIC guys had over 3000TT, and much time in type, and the insurance cost drove the operator away from this kind of operation. He could not charge enough money for the charter to justify such high insurance requirements.

I loved the Chieftain. Stable IFR platforum, nice feel. I miss it.

I'm glad to hear that cjh is able to own and insure a Nav. Wish I could.

 

[cjh]

I'm glad to hear that cjh is able to own and insure a Nav. Wish I could.

Thanks! I am fortunate to be able to own/fly twins, especially since I don't aspire to fly for others for a living. My choices are pretty much either buy it myself or be content with SEL! Now, if I were REALLY fortunate I'd own my own jet!!

He could not charge enough money for the charter to justify such high insurance requirements.

Yeah, isn't it a shame and just plain wrong that insurance companies have now become wielders of so much power. They have become the "other reg" that so often really governs flying these days.

Prior to the Navajo, I owned a Cheyenne. Although the plane was well within my capabilities, I had to have another pilot on board who was insurable because my hours were too low to get coverage. To this day it irks me that the insurance company was able to exert that much control over my life!

 

[skylane58]

I had the opportunity to fly charter for a guy flying a 421 and 340s. My total time was OK, but I needed about another 100 to 150 hours of multi. The insurance people wanted me to get dual in the airplanes for 100 hours before they would let me loose. Needless to say it went to another pilot with more multi. I have 1200 and 115.

 

[cjh]

I suspect part 135 was the issue.