Instrument Takeoffs???

[JB74]

I was reading through the FAA's Instrument Flying Handbook and came across instrument takeoffs (5-33). It describes the steps and techniques on how to perform a takeoff under the hood.

I didn't think people actually practiced zero vis takeoffs.

My question is have you ever, or do you currently, teach this to your Inst students?

 

[FracCapt]

My question is have you ever, or do you currently, teach this to your Inst students?

I did. It just shows them how stupid they are being when they think they can just "track the localizer to maintain centerline" during takeoff. I would let it go until they were halfway between the centerline and runway edge, then have them pull the hood off as I kept us out of the lights.

 

[johnpeace]

My CFII taught it to me, I thought it was a stupid parlor trick. My thinking was, 'why in the hell would I ever need to know how to take off if it's so foggy I can't see the centerline/lights?'.

He just had me hold RWY heading (set heading bug after lining up) on the takeoff roll.

I can't imagine this is a useful technique or one that an examiner will ever want to see me demonstrate.

 

[JeffSKDTW]

He just had me hold RWY heading (set heading bug after lining up) on the takeoff roll.

I also did a 0/0 takeoff by maintaining the heading. However, JohnPeace, your post made me think, "if it is so foggy that we can't see the centerline, then how the heck did we ever line the plane up in the first place?"

 

[avbug]

Trying to perform or teach takeoffs with zero forward visibility is stupid, and accomplishes nothing.

Certainly reduced visibility takeoff instruction should be provided, but one should not teach, nor infer that the student should conduct takeoffs with zero visibility. Glasses that have been scuffed or fogged to reduce visibility may be used, or a view limiting device that restricts the student's view to a few lines forward of the cowl, are useful for this.

Even in certificated operations flown by professional pilots, zero visibility takeoffs are an extremee rarity, and can only be conducted using very specialized means. To suggest that training in a light airplane without any adequate means or control should be conducted, with a new instrument student, for zero visibility takeoffs ("zero-zero") is ridiculous.

Reduced visibility takeoffs should be taught to instrument students. Zero vibility takeoffs should not, nor should the student be encouraged to make them, or to think that the student has any place attempting them. Zero visibility takeoffs are n learning or teaching tool, nor are they any confidence building tool. Teaching them to students is a mistake.

 

[SDCFI]

I did a couple too, mainly just for grins, not sure if it was required at the time. Anyone landed with the hood on with your instructor talking you down? Did that just for fun too. Without simulators available for most GA students it's impossible to accurately simulate a low-vis t/o aside from the hood. Having taken off once with 600RVR in a Chieftain I can tell you nothing quite prepares you for that until you've done it. Also, when taking off in low-vis as soon as you rotate you're on the gauges, so having the hood on during the t/o is supposed to simulate that as well. Fun stuff.

 

[FracCapt]

Zero visibility takeoffs are n learning or teaching tool, nor are they any confidence building tool. Teaching them to students is a mistake.

I disagree. I think they prove a point....that it is STUPID to attempt a 0 vis takeoff. Before attempting it, some of them thought they would be capable of it......but I never had a student think it was a good idea or they were capable of it afterwards.

 

[avbug]

How about just smacking them with a rolled up newspaper?

 

[johnpeace]

Yeah, FracCapt...I am with avbug on this one. I see where you're coming from, but overloaded students forget contexts of training over time.

What was demonstrated as a dumb idea may eventually become in your student's mind just another technique he saw his CFII perform/demonstrate.

Students have a tendency to forget the context in which they saw their instructor do something. Consider how many private pilots regard their 3 hours of BAI training as the ability to safely navigate a cloud, or starless night. Even though CFIs insist that those 3 hours of BAI are just there to demonstrate how helpless a non-instrument rated pilot would be flying on instruments.

Similarly, I think the stupidity of the instrument take off would best be illustrated by the instructor's NOT offering to teach them and expressing his/her disdain for such a dumb idea. In my case, my CFII didn't explain any context. He just had me put the hood on before rounding the turn to line up on the runway one day. I left that lesson with the impression that some people might actually do this...even though I never would.

I won't teach them. I'll tell my students not to ever try to take off if they can't see down the runway they are about to accelerate down.

 

[bobbysamd]

ITOs

My question is have you ever, or do you currently, teach [instrument takeoffs] to your Inst students?

My instructor taught me instrument takeoffs. I didn't want to do them at first, but my instructor emphasized their value as an instrument cross-check and coordination exercise only. I taught ITOs to my instrument students for the same reasons.

I was taught to use a correctly-set HI as the directional reference and never the localizer. I always did them in ordinary VFR conditions and never during reduced visaility.

 

[satpak77]

my CFI did who wanted to show me "how the airlines do it in the real world"



to this day, flying 135 canceled checks, CFI-ing, and in Part 91 corporate style ops, with FlightSafety events every year, I have never done a true zero zero IFR takeoff, nor met anyone who desired to.

"boy-its-sh1tty-viz" and "barely 200/half" takeoffs, yes, but zero zero, no