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Instrument approach on commercial checkride?

LouSwatch

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I realize I should probably know this, but I've been out of instructing for a while and I did my training at a 141 school. My student has a private and instrument and is going for a commercial certificate. Will he need to do an instrument approach or any instrument maneuvers on his commercial checkride?
 

LouSwatch

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Also, do we need to do another 10 hours of instrument training for the commercial checkride, or can his training for the instrument rating count?
 

J.Otto

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No instrument work on a commercial ride.
 

wrxpilot

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Also, do we need to do another 10 hours of instrument training for the commercial checkride, or can his training for the instrument rating count?

His training for the IA rating will count towards the 10 hrs of training. No approaches required for the comm ride, but they are for the multi-add on.
 

nosehair

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I realize I should probably know this
Please do yourself and your student a huge favor and get a commercial PTS and be sure to cover all the required TASKs, and be knowledgeable and prepared for the commercial practical test.
 
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JAFI

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Please do yourself and your student a huge favor and get a commercial PTS and be sure to cover all the required TASKs, and be knowledgeable and prepared for the commercial practical test.

Oh and I donno - read part 61 commerical requirements to be qualified to take the test. Unless your student wants to pay the examiner twice to take the ride once......
 

LouSwatch

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Oh and I donno - read part 61 commerical requirements to be qualified to take the test. Unless your student wants to pay the examiner twice to take the ride once......


Yeah thanks, this was very helpful...
 

Amish RakeFight

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Yeah thanks, this was very helpful...

If you're instructing regularly, you should have a PTS. Aside from being intimate with it from regular usage, how else do you expect to know what to teach? Regs. change every couple of years so if you're getting back into the CFI stuff, you should pick up new copies or check out the FAA website which has them in downloadable PDF form.
 

JAFI

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Yeah thanks, this was very helpful...

You are welcome, yes it was.

Amish hit the nail on the head. The regs do change, so does the PTS. If you are the "school" and not a "141 school" it is up to you to ensure the student is prepared for the exam. This includes "Legally prepared" or qualified to take the exam. If you are not 100 % sure where you need to go then, how do you expect the student to be ready? Any examiner worth his/her salt will make sure the requirements are covered BEFORE the exam or the exam is not valid.

This is important and, as the CFI you need to ensure you are more prepared than the student.

I would also ask if you have the current AC 61-65. If not I would ask if your students endorcements are correct (and legal)?

As a CFI it is all on your sholders. It is a lot of stuff to know. It is all part of the job.
 
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JAFI

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Mark, I do applaud his effort to ask the question. My concern is that it is not enough of a question and late. It is not the question "IS only this one part legal" but, did I as the Instructor ensure all my students training is enough, legal, and up to standards for the exam. And all he has to do is take the time to read the material. But what I really wonder about is why not do the homework before training was started? He said he "hasn't instructed in a while" and he "should know this". YES to both questions... This is where I bang my head on the desk.... Knowing where you lack knowledge is so much better than not knowing. The easy part, ESPECALLY when it is all accessible on the internet, is to prepare your self as a student and instructor.

But, I could be jumping to conclusions here. He may have done this and is just checking at the end of the training program. Yes, that’s it. My head doesn't hurt so much now. Really he worded his question poorly and did review all material prior to beginning training. Now the color is coming back to my fingers. He made a complete set of lesson plans. Checked them for completeness, legality, and purpose. Followed the plans and produced a product he can be proud of. A safe, proficient pilot. OK, I'm feeling much better. :) :)

I have been accused to being to harsh and "beating up" some of the posters. What I have seen a judge do makes my comments sound like a whisper.
 

LouSwatch

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Mark, I do applaud his effort to ask the question. My concern is that it is not enough of a question and late. It is not the question "IS only this one part legal" but, did I as the Instructor ensure all my students training is enough, legal, and up to standards for the exam. And all he has to do is take the time to read the material. But what I really wonder about is why not do the homework before training was started? He said he "hasn't instructed in a while" and he "should know this". YES to both questions... This is where I bang my head on the desk.... Knowing where you lack knowledge is so much better than not knowing. The easy part, ESPECALLY when it is all accessible on the internet, is to prepare your self as a student and instructor.

But, I could be jumping to conclusions here. He may have done this and is just checking at the end of the training program. Yes, that’s it. My head doesn't hurt so much now. Really he worded his question poorly and did review all material prior to beginning training. Now the color is coming back to my fingers. He made a complete set of lesson plans. Checked them for completeness, legality, and purpose. Followed the plans and produced a product he can be proud of. A safe, proficient pilot. OK, I'm feeling much better. :) :)

I have been accused to being to harsh and "beating up" some of the posters. What I have seen a judge do makes my comments sound like a whisper.


OK Wow, yeah I should have been much clearer here. I wrote that he is going for his commercial certificate, meaning to start training, not to take the test. I now see why it was interpreted that way. My mistake. I have not even started this training yet. I was in the process of writing a syllabus and basic lesson plans for this individual student because he is a slightly different scenario than most new commercial students (trying to do an accelerated program with him and he is a very competent pilot). I don't want to make him pay for additional training that isn't completely necessary. I didn't have a PTS with me at home (I now know that they are online in PDFs, thank you RakeFlight), so I figured I would get some quick verification from other professionals, which I got in the first 2 replies. Sorry for the poor phrasing in the question, and I could do without the lectures on how to do my job.
 

JAFI

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OK Wow, yeah I should have been much clearer here. I wrote that he is going for his commercial certificate, meaning to start training, not to take the test.

Going for a certificate could mean thinking about it, started training, up to going out the door to take the exam.....

I now see why it was interpreted that way. My mistake. I have not even started this training yet. I was in the process of writing a syllabus and basic lesson plans for this individual student because he is a slightly different scenario than most new commercial students (trying to do an accelerated program with him and he is a very competent pilot). I don't want to make him pay for additional training that isn't completely necessary.

Good for you. Prepration and planning avoid poor performance.

I didn't have a PTS with me at home (I now know that they are online in PDFs, thank you RakeFlight), so I figured I would get some quick verification from other professionals, which I got in the first 2 replies.

So if this was a specific discussion, you were getting an area to research your self or were you getting "legal" advice from a fourm? The former I would say good for you, the latter I would say don't bet the farm on free legal advice.

Sorry for the poor phrasing in the question, and I could do without the lectures on how to do my job.

Now here is the dig. It is my job to lecture instructors/examiners on how to do their job. I see too many canidates showing up for exams not legal or ready to take the exam and I hope I can assist instructors to be better prepared. As many others on a discussion fourm I give my experiences and knowledge free to those who would take it.

Several Instructors/operators have made that same "don't tell me how to do my job" comment to me. So I honor their request but when the time comes I don't lecture, I just send a certified letter with my concerns and let the lawyers sort it out. As do other Inspectors. Now I would rather give advice, ask questions, and clairfy a concern before the need to write letters happens. But I am flexable, I get paid the same either way. However, here I do this for free.
 
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Mickey

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Wow! You came here asking how to do your job and are now saying you don't need lectures on how to do your job. Interesting! I guess you don't need lectures , only instruction. What's a PTS?
 
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