Initial CFI Questions

[350DRIVER]

I highly doubt that 90% of initial applicants bust on their "first" attempt. I doubt their is any truth to that statement at all... I got my CFI/CFII through an accelerated course last year and had no problems whatsoever. The best advice I could offer from my experience is to know the CFI PTS, ASA oral guide, and FAR's inside and out prior to arriving at the flight school to begin your training.-

If you know your stuff you should do just fine...

Good "luck" to you although at this point of the ball game hopefully you won't need any "luck"-

 

[A1FlyBoy]

It may seem high, but it is true and the FSDO and FAA back up the 90% "initial" CFI failure rate.

 

[flydog]

The 90% failure rate is true but that statistic is for rides with actual Feds not DPEs.

About 2 yrs ago some FSDOs removed the authority of the DPEs to give initial CFI rides. Had a lot to do with the high accident rate of student pilots taught by 250 hr wonders (go figure)

A vast majority of the 90% were very low time pilots who had a grand total of 4-6 months experience in aviation and incredibly undeprepared for a check ride that tests all your knowledge from Private through Instrument. THINK ABOUT IT. You are teaching FNGs that have zero time how to fly a plane. Of course the FAA is going to be harsh on this checkride.

I think this has now changed and it shouldnt be hard to find a DPE who can do initial CFI rides. I took it with a DPE and not the FAA and my oral was 3 hrs and ride about 1.5.

If you stick with a designated examiner and know your stuff it should go very easy.

As far as the 60-80 hrs of ground school estimate. I heard this when I started my CFI too. However this depends on your knowledge. If you are a 1200 hr pilot who knows his stuff and learned from good instructors your ground school time may be considerably less. If you have 250 hrs and 4 months in the business the 80 hrs may be required.

If I remember correctly I did about 12 hrs of ground mostly preparing and preparing lesson plans.

Dont sweat it. Some of this stuff gets blown out of proportion by those who have been there done that.

 

[bobbysamd]

CFI Training Times

Apparently the FAA goes back and forth on letting DEs give initial CFIs. In my day, fifteen years ago, DEs gave intial CFI practicals. In fact, I don't recall Practical Test Standards for CFIs during that era. Then, in the late '80s-early 90s, the FAA resumed examining for initial CFIs and found itself overloaded. So, it farmed out initial practicals to DEs, but you had to start first with the FAA. You could always get an add-on with a DE.

Buzo's training times sound similar to the times put in by my CFI students. The flight time goes quickly! It's hard to refine everything in only a few hours of flying. Don't forget, you are transiting back and forth to the practice area. Sometimes, it takes a while to become comfortable doing landings from the right seat. The oral time is spent primarily developing and refining your presentation for EVERY area of operation in the Private and Commercial PTS.

There are pros and cons to every training method. Either way you go, it is important to study hard and to train steadily and with focus.

 

[Rerouted]

Don't let the high rate of failure of first time CFI applicants concern you much. Focus your attention on really preparing for not only your ride....but more importantly for your work as a CFI.....and you'll be ready for the checkride by default. My CFI examination with the Feds lasted about 5 hours - 4 hours on the ground and 1 hour in the air. The examiner literally used the PTS as an outline for the oral, and had me hold a copy while I answered the questions. Remember, if you don't know something, admit it, and explain where you might be able to find the answer. It's much worse to blatently guess....and quess wrong, than it is to explain where to find the correct information. Overall, the CFI initial checkride isn't one to take if you're not prepared - but, with enough ground work, and some good practice at teaching both in the aircraft and on the ground, you stand a much better chance of passing on your first attempt. Best of Luck.

 

[Buzo]

I worked really hard preparing for my CFI, and personally think it was the easiest of all of my checkrides. I had the same instructor throughout my instrument, commercial, and CFI training which I think helped me.

 

[Pilotadjuster]

Initial CFI

Just passed initial with a DPE last week. As with any other examiner and test, you need to talk to other people who have been to them and see what they emphasize. Every examiner has different hot buttons and areas they think are most important. In my case there was big time emphasis on being able to TEACH. FOI information and preparation/presentation of lesson plans.

about 6 hours oral, 2 hours flight (about 1.4 hobbs time). I understand that is not at all unusual with DPEs.

Depending upon the FSDO, there is almost a requirement to pink slip on the first time through; I have heard different gripes, explainations, etc. for that, but remember this is the government and they live and die by numerical evaluations.... If you are a safety inspector and have 90%+ first time pass rate, they probably figure youre a pushover, whereas if you have a 90% first time failure rate, youre a hard-a$$ and just fine!

In any case, I would study your private and commercial texts closely. The best study guide I had (by far!) was Gleim's Flight Instructor - Flight Maneuvers Book. Goes through the FOI stuff in detail and then each and every maneuver with steps to teach and common mistakes.

Good luck!

PA

PS--250 hour wonder....?? Thanks for the rundown, I appreciate that at this point in my career. Hopefully, I'll be a bit more tolerant of those trying to start out when I have "2000+". Am I the worlds greatest CFI? obviously not, with 0 hrs dual given. Am I going to do everything possible to become the best? Hell yes!

FYI--one of the worst instructors I ever flew with was a CFII/MEI with a few thousand hours F-18 time as well. Couldn't teach worth a darn and was a waste of time and $ for his students! Of course the best had 10,000+ hrs...

 

[flyboy]

Thanks for your correspondance. ADP's CFI, CFII program is now about 2 weeks.

 

[Mitsipilot]

Hey flyboy,

If you have any additional info you can provide me on ADP's CFI program, I would appreciate it. Looking at there web site says you can get the CFI in as little as 5 day. Any truth to that? Have you spoken to them yet and gotten any additional info you can provide. I do appreciate it.

I am looking for a student of mine who has considered going to ALL ATPs for the CFI, CFII and MEI course. This may be a quicker and cheaper alternative. Thanks again.

 

[flyboy]

Yeah, I talked to Natalie a couple of times. They advertise 5 days for the initial but she said that it really takes about 7 days. The CFII is supposed to be about 3 days. She told me to plan for 2 weeks to be on the safe side b/c of checkrides. I don't think it's necessarily cheaper than ATP's course if you are talking about all 3 ratings, That is, if they (ATP) don't raise their rates next month. I've talked to ATP 4 times in the last 4 weeks and they continue to put me off when I ask about the price. They told me not to expect the $3559 they are advertising. After the 4th call last week, I pretty much told them they had lost my interest. Good luck.