Info on Horizon?

[JetSpeed219]

My instructor was called and has an interview on wednesday with Horizon. Both he and I thought they were done hiring for the year, he was suprised when he got the call and wants to know what the reason is, any Horizon pilots out there know???

 

[qxpilot]

Had recurrent last week and the chief pilot gave his pep-talk. They are hiring a class of 6 in October. This is for the Q200 only. So realize that you will be in that airplane for almost 6 years till you upgrade and then you get to spend another 6 years as a captain. No news on anything else. Pretty much zero growth for now. But we ARE adding 4 seats to our Q400's. So you can enjoy the ride that much more now.

 

[767200]

So 6 yrs to upgrade on the Q200. Then how many for the Q4 and CRJ???

 

[rke44]

As a fairly senior FO at Horizon let me tell you how it is realistically. I was hired in early 2000 into the DHC-200. Ever since it has been a road of continued disappointments. I have watched as all of my friends at other airlines upgraded in less time to RJs making more money with better schedules. As an FO on the 200 I am able to transition to DHC-400 or CRJ700, but that would cause me to take about a 40% pay cut for 2 years according to the contract that was negotiated by super senior captains who didn't give a care about the underlings. This means that new hires are being put into the jet and given cake schedules. Great you say since you are applying for a job except that they might put you into the 200 and there you will stay until upgrade unless you are willing to take the pay cut. It's a pretty bitter pill to swallow considering the upgrade time around here. Someone mentioned a 6 year upgrade being the case. I wish! I'm looking at about a 7 to 8 year term as it stands now and that doesn't take into consideration the strong possibility that they will reduce the fleet size. That is due to the fact that they are very possibly going to replace 20 200's with 12 400's in the near future. If that happens I will be looking at about a 10 year sentence in the right seat. Sucks pretty bad considering that the whole reason I came to work here was to build PIC time. The most annoying thing about it is that management will sell it as a 5 to 10% growth event which it would be with respect to ASMs. Personally, I don't a rat's a$$ about that. I just want to get the PIC and move on as most FOs do. To sum up, don't even think you will be happy here unless your prime objective is to live in the Northwest and nothing more. Otherwise I would strongly suggest you hold out for another company that has real growth objectives. Dispatcher121 seems to be fairly positive about Horizon, but by the posts I have read from her I can tell that she probable isn't a pilot and therefore buys into the corporate mantra constantly fed to the employee group. I can understand. If I wasn't a pilot here it really would be a pretty good place to work. Take my words to heart. Most of the guys I know flying here in the right seat are either giving up on aviation or are sending out resumes like myself. Actions speak louder than words. Good luck.

 

[dkwid]

In reaponse to the negative posts of RKE.

All you can do is chose a company that works best for you personally. Nobody knows how well a company will do or grow. If you pick a place purely for upgrade potential odds are by the time you get there the upgrades will not be. In addition to the fleet reduction rumor there are also growth rumors that are about the same intensity, until they happen they ar eall meaningless. I have been at Horizon six years and it was just pure luck that I did not get a longer right seat sentence....but...that's the airlines. Considering the hundreds out of work and the basic state of the industry life could be much worse.

RKE, before you become a miserable old b*astard find something that makes you happy.

 

[ASH]

I don't think rke was being negative, I think he was trying to give someone who might go there, a headsup as to what to expect. he's dissappointed....so? How is that negative? That's like saying it's a sin to be angry!

But, to back up the other guy, if rke is not happy, he needs to make sure he remains positive around the folks who like it there.

Just my .02, no change please

 

[Lequip]

As a fairly senior FO at Horizon let me tell you how it is realistically. I was hired in early 2000 into the DHC-200. Ever since it has been a road of continued disappointments. I have watched as all of my friends at other airlines upgraded in less time to RJs making more money with better schedules. As an FO on the 200 I am able to transition to DHC-400 or CRJ700, but that would cause me to take about a 40% pay cut for 2 years according to the contract that was negotiated by super senior captains who didn't give a care about the underlings. This means that new hires are being put into the jet and given cake schedules. Great you say since you are applying for a job except that they might put you into the 200 and there you will stay until upgrade unless you are willing to take the pay cut. It's a pretty bitter pill to swallow considering the upgrade time around here. Someone mentioned a 6 year upgrade being the case. I wish! I'm looking at about a 7 to 8 year term as it stands now and that doesn't take into consideration the strong possibility that they will reduce the fleet size. That is due to the fact that they are very possibly going to replace 20 200's with 12 400's in the near future. If that happens I will be looking at about a 10 year sentence in the right seat. Sucks pretty bad considering that the whole reason I came to work here was to build PIC time. The most annoying thing about it is that management will sell it as a 5 to 10% growth event which it would be with respect to ASMs. Personally, I don't a rat's a$$ about that. I just want to get the PIC and move on as most FOs do. To sum up, don't even think you will be happy here unless your prime objective is to live in the Northwest and nothing more. Otherwise I would strongly suggest you hold out for another company that has real growth objectives. Dispatcher121 seems to be fairly positive about Horizon, but by the posts I have read from her I can tell that she probable isn't a pilot and therefore buys into the corporate mantra constantly fed to the employee group. I can understand. If I wasn't a pilot here it really would be a pretty good place to work. Take my words to heart. Most of the guys I know flying here in the right seat are either giving up on aviation or are sending out resumes like myself. Actions speak louder than words. Good luck.

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Another cry baby who feels like the Aviation God's owe him dearly.

 

[rke44]

Hey, I'm just trying to give the kid a clear picture of the state of affairs around here since everyone else is blowing sunshine up his/her you know what. I wish someone had done me the favor back in 2000. I really don't think I'm being too negative. Those are the facts. Upgrade is completely out of hand compared to MOST other regionals and I gave them an idea of what the contract has in store for him concerning transitioning to other aircraft. Heck, I even made a comment regarding non-pilots being happy here. If the truth is considered complaining, then I think the guy needs to hear about it so he can make a well educated decision. Let me reiterate, if you really want to live in the PNW, then this is the carrier for you. Otherwise, I would take a long and hard look at what is going on at other places compared to here. None of that is complaining, that is reality.

Hey DKWID, pretty easy for you to criticize being you got hired at about the perfect time at QX. I'm going to guess that you got to the left seat right at about 2.5 years and if you were really lucky you are currently in DEN with all the new hires. Don't pretend to know what its like to be in my shoes and last but not least don't give me advice. I didn't ask for it and don't want it, just like in the cockpit. Somebody asked a question and I gave them the facts. Stay out of my business. And as far as the rumor goes, I heard it from Ken Heninger's mouth so I don't consider it a rumor especially after all the revisions in the FSM/FOM that align our procedures so closely with the 400.

ASH, thanks for knowing the difference between opinion and fact, but I don't think I should censor myself around content fellow pilots so that others are given incorrect information. That is what this board is all about. I appreciate your support since I am obviously the instant bad guy around here.

 

[Buschpilot]

Wow. Let me give ya'll a view from the other side of the fence.

I've been here goin on 2 years, and I wouldn't change my decision. I knew from the get go that things are slow. I knew that I wasn't going to be upgrading soon. I knew that there aren't going to be any other bigger better jobs to move onto anytime soon. No one told me this, but no one had to. I picked this company because I knew that I was going to be a regional pilot for quite some time, so I better pick a good one. I picked right. It fits my lifestyle just fine.

Sure, it would be nice to upgrade in the foreseeable future, but then what? I make more money is about the only advantage at this point that I can see. I was told and have constantly been told from the beginning that there will be no new hires. Guess what? Over 90 people have been hired since. The company wouldn't be doing anyone any justice if they were to blow smoke up our tails with happy-go-lucky bs. They're not perfect, but they do ok, and they're as honest as they can be. The trick is to not get all wrapped up around a rumor. Lots of rumors fly around, simply because we are a conservative air group. We have been since Jesus was a Corporal. No secret there.

This company certainly isn't for everyone, as is any company. The person that will fit in here wants to fly in a great area, fly great equipment, work with super people, and have great benefits.

The grass is always greener, I know that more than anyone alive, I think. But not in my case here at Horizon. Best of luck with your choice. Feel free tom PM me if anyone has q's.

B

 

[dkwid]

Here is a slice of reality also. Skywest, Mesa, who are upgrading at a faster rate are doing so as their respective companies replace flying for their mainline partners. With the exception of the LCC's , that have limited if any regional partners, there is absolutely no growth. What you are refering to as upgrades is really a shifting of work from mainline pilots to regional pilots. this is all great for the Skywests and their pilots but it is a rather bleak picture for the industry as a whole.

What I was eluding to was that when you make the move to a company you have absolutely no gaurantee as to the future of that company. Upgrades are fast a furious now at handful of regionals but as the industry shifts who knows where they will be in a year.

I put in years and years as a flight instructor. So I think it is fare to say we all find our times of stagnation inthe industry. You should pick every company as if it is your last..........the unfortunate reality is, is that it very well may be. Bottom line, bitching and moaning buys you nothing but misery.

 

[norskman2]

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. Another cry baby who feels like the Aviation God's owe him dearly.

Let another sterling, thoughtful and helpful contribution to the board, LeQuip!

 

[Sioux115]

Upgrade isn't everything

I work for a company that has a jet upgrade of about 3 years and lowering. Great! But the company is he!! to work for, no respect for the labor group, always some sort of drama about the CEO starting an alter ego airline with 737's. Two of our code shares are in bankruptcy. The third codeshare is mad at us because our performance stinks. Everyday is just a nightmare to go to work. Not to mention I might not have a job next month when a code share might drop us. But hey, at least I'll be captain and then I can move onto a major airline. When? Everyone is still on furlough. I would rather sit in the right seat for six years working for a stable company with a good work environment anyday. Im trying to get on with Horizon so RKE how about you and I trade places. Don't get me wrong, Im not a bitter person, Im just sharing my opinion on a good company from a company with a quick upgrade. Cheers.

 

[miles otoole]

I work for a company that has a jet upgrade of about 3 years and lowering. Great! But the company is he!! to work for, no respect for the labor group, always some sort of drama about the CEO starting an alter ego airline with 737's. Two of our code shares are in bankruptcy. The third codeshare is mad at us because our performance stinks. Everyday is just a nightmare to go to work. Not to mention I might not have a job next month when a code share might drop us. But hey, at least I'll be captain and then I can move onto a major airline. When? Everyone is still on furlough. I would rather sit in the right seat for six years working for a stable company with a good work environment anyday. Im trying to get on with Horizon so RKE how about you and I trade places. Don't get me wrong, Im not a bitter person, Im just sharing my opinion on a good company from a company with a quick upgrade. Cheers.

Some People will beoootch, no matter where they are. At Wn, pilots frequently complain about the lack of food on board. Hey, RKE, why not give mesa a or CHQ or PSA a look. I have heard some are still hiring street CAs.

 

[qxpilot]

Give RKE a break. He's just telling of how it is here. I guess we could put a positive spin on everything. Yeah, it's great new hires with no time and that aren't even 21 yrs old yet are going right into the RJ and flying 2-3 legs a day while those of us with 5+ years seniority are stuck in the dash flying 6-8 a day. Good for them, they've worked hard to earn that seat. They've spent countless hours at 13,000ft over the Cascades in the ice. Good for them.

 

[mmase7]

Well said...Cascades...Ice...21 year olds from UND in a RJ right seat....