Indy Air Rumor

[FDJ2]

I am sure you Delta guys are familiar with the phrase "A contract is a contract" Well ACA had a 10yr contract with Delta to provide 30 regional jets in support of the Delta Connection program dated sometime in the spring of 2000. No limits or restrictions as to how ACA conducted business.

QUOTE]


There are no limits on ACA, only on DAL. Also, your "contract is a contract" also had a clause which allows Delta to pull the plug on it. Now quit your whining over losing your DL code flying and go be "Independent". After all, isn't that what you wanted?

 

[Rotorhead]

As I said before, it isn't whining. Please read my post above.

 

[neflier]

There are no limits on ACA, only on DAL. Also, your "contract is a contract" also had a clause which allows Delta to pull the plug on it. Now quit your whining over losing your DL code flying and go be "Independent". After all, isn't that what you wanted?

I'm flying the 328 for ACA under Delta colors and couldn't agree more with your post. Whatever happens to IAir over the long haul will be our own doing. IMHO, we went into this venture knowing / wanting the end of the Delta contract. It's time for us to lay in the bed that we made for ourselves.

 

[Indypilot]

Quit your whining. You want to be independent, then have at it. I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you, we wish you luck as well.

Oh, and silly me, I forgot that episode where the 1500 pilots held senior management hostage and forced them to do this. The bottom 250 kidnappers were so kind that they even voluntarily offered to give up their jobs just to force management into doing what we did.

Come on people, the pilots that are being furloughed didn't have a choice in the matter. Lines like the one above really cheese me off. Have some respect would you. They are being furloughed INvoluntarily. Yes we did want to break away, It is the best thing we have ever done. For all of you poor saps experiencing the G concourse nightmare in IAD, I'm sorry, I wish you could feel what we feel. Yes we are going to furlough more, Yes this has been know for months now, this is not a knee jerk reaction to save money. This has everything to do with the speed of the pull down of the delta flying. Management knew it, we knew it, but do you honestly think the bottom guys had a say in the matter? Most all should be back in 6-9 months because of the airbus delivery schedule. All will offered jobs elsewhere in the company for the short term if they so desire. It sucks, plain and simple, we don't want to see anyone go, yet we have no choice. Fine, but don't blame those that are about to lose their jobs by some crappy line like you asked for it. It's amazing you DALPA/DCI guys argue and yell and scream day in and day out, you hate eachother so much its funny. But guess what, you asked for it, so quit your B%@#@#$%

 

[FDJ2]

Indy pilot, like you said, you wanted it, now you got it, so quit whining about not being allowed to fly DL code. You don't hear us whining about not being able to fly the Indy Airbuses because of your scope clause. You have a scope clause, which we respect, the least you could do is respect ours. It's all part of being "independent", which is what you say you wanted.

 

[Indypilot]

FDJ2,


I'm not whining about not being able to fly DL code. I want it gone just as badly as you do. I do respect your scope clause. You guys have it for a reason, I'm glad to live by those rules for now, just as we have an iron clad scope clause and I would expect anyone one to honor that clause. I'm not asking for the DALPA guys to budge on their scope. In fact, in principal I'm happy they aren't allowing any exemptions.

It's not about that, I'm whining about your insensative remark targeted towards people that are about to lose their job. Hey your furloughs got what they wanted too didn't they? your management set up a business plan, and they certainly got what they deserved for going along with it, right?

Come on man, I don't want to see anyone lose their job, not here, not there, not anywhere. Yes we are going to have some more, it sucks, and it is managements fault, but it is in the best interest of the company right now. I'm not pointing a finger at DALPA like some others. If the shoes were on the other feet, I would hope we too would shoot down any attempt to work around our scope. Get out of the DALPA/DCI screaming at eachother mindset for a while think about your comment for a while. It's not whining about you guys, it's about calling someone out for a stupid remark like "you got what you wanted, now live with it." Im sure your furloughs feel the same.

 

[FDJ2]

FDJ2,


I'm not pointing a finger at DALPA like some others.

No you're not, but I was responding to ignorant comments such as

"It is true. Probably closer to 150, less due to voluntary leaves. Still to be determined. Starting in Jan. Thanks to Delta, and the DALPA PWA."



"Delta MGT. decided it would rather piss on us then piss off DALPA."

As if somehow, respecting our PWA is to blame for your furloughs. These are management decisions and DAL isn't pissing on Indy, DAL management is acting in compliance with it's contractual obligations. My comments weren't directed at your furloughed pilots, but at the whiners.

You have a long hard road ahead of you, as you are well aware, I wish you luck and I hope you get your furloughed guys back in the air quickly.

 

[Rotorhead]

Ignorant would be an inaccurate representation of these comments. Certainly you disliked them but they are based in fact. Ignorance has no regard for facts.


FACT The Delta PWA is what preciptated DAL mgt to cancel our contract without cause. FACT

FACT The furloughs are due to the parking of the 328 fleet on Nov 2nd. FACT

FACT DAL mgt decided it would rather disolve our contract than run afoul of the PWA. FACT


The is no whining, no critisism of scope, no ill will towards Delta or its pilot group.

My statements are simply to point out the events that are contributing to the furlough .

 

[46Driver]

All in all, its a good thing for us to unload the DoJets on Delta. It may bring some short term pain, but if we got stuck with them, Indy Air would have a major problem.

 

[Always deferred]

Let me take a stab at this...from someone on the furlough fence's perspective:

Delta pilots have every right to protect their scope and their flying. We at indy would feel the same way should another carrier working for us come head to head with a scope issue. However, I believe much of the frustration and ill-will stems from the fact that DALPA/DAL mgmt were unwilling/unable to work in a transition program with ACA's 328s over a several month period that would have mitigated the number of furloughs. We had no problem with leaving the program, but it would have been nice for Delta, whether it be the Union or mgmt, to work with us to help preserve jobs while we exited to Independence.

 

[vc10]

If DAL goes bankrupt, Indy will be stuck with them. Indy is still responsible for the rent payments if DAL goes bankrupt. If DAL goes bankrupt, it will almost certainly return the 328s to Indy ASAP.

Indy couldn't permanently transfer the leases to DAL because DAL's credit is too poor. So it's still stuck if DAL pulls the Ch 11 lever.

Other than the regionals who fly for DAL, no airline has more of an interest in DAL staying out of Ch 11 than Indy.

All in all, its a good thing for us to unload the DoJets on Delta. It may bring some short term pain, but if we got stuck with them, Indy Air would have a major problem.

 

[chperplt]

We had no problem with leaving the program, but it would have been nice for Delta, whether it be the Union or mgmt, to work with us to help preserve jobs while we exited to Independence.

They did... They said you could continue to fly the code until you brought the 1st Airbus on line. Maybe you should have delayed that first delivery until you could have avoided the job loss.

It sucks any way you look at it. Your management had a choice and they did what was best for I-Air. DAL/DALPA did the same thing.

 

[LJDRVR]

Best of luck to my Brothers and Sisters at Indy, I hope the furlough goes quickly and everyone finds a way to put food on the table. If anybody needs some advice on the 135 world, feel free to PM me. i just completed over 5 years of charter, and maybe I could be of help.

Just out of curiosity, are the load factors coming up yet? I'm hoping y'all are successful, as your area of business is probably a big part of our future at my carrier.

Good Luck!

 

[Rotorhead]

They did... They said you could continue to fly the code until you brought the 1st Airbus on line.

Incorrect. They gave 180 days notice of termination IAW the contract. It is a coincidence that the 319 comes on line at about the same time as the 328 is parked.

I understand that part of the holdup announcing a new operator is Comair has thrown in a last minute offer to operate the 328 instead of Skyway.

 

[chperplt]

I understand that part of the holdup announcing a new operator is Comair has thrown in a last minute offer to operate the 328 instead of Skyway.

Comair threw in a bid months ago.. Nothing last minute about it.