Importance of PIC time?

[US Flyer]

pilotyip, that's too bad for your friend. But as avbug says... he's not qualified. Also, as AeroMatt says, he's only proven he can get along with his captains.

According to these geniuses, he should have foreseen his furlough and resigned from a six figure flying job to fly boxes in some beat up BE99 for 25k to gain that valuable turbine PIC experience.

I'm not trying to get in the middle of this, but have seen both sides of this debate as I've worked my way through my aviation career. I went through the same basic scenario (that Freight Dog did) at my company, and was frustrated to see an ex-student of mine (from my CFI days) go on to SWA with 3000TT after he flew freight for 18 months. At the time I had over 6000 TT, had extensive flying experience from Alaska to the Caribean and and flown Metros, King-Airs, Fokker Jet and a CRJ. Although I had plenty of PIC time, it was not the PIC Turbine time that they want.

I also came to my company when the upgrade time (had been) two years and then it became 6 years. I do not have a fraction of the total time or experience base to draw from like many of the US Air guys mentioned by PilotYip that ended up being screwed by the situation. Even though I have more PIC Turbine time than they do, I have no doubt those US Air guys with 15000 hours and 200 PIC Turbine could fly circles around me in a transport category airplane.

Its a somewhat flawed system, but short of some kind of nationwide master seniority system, which we probably don't want for other reasons, I don't ever see it changing. If I had to do it over again, I would go back in time to nine years ago and have flown boxes in a beat up freighter for two years. My friend who did this is now getting close to captain upgrade at SWA and I'm still trying to get an interview!

 

[pilotyip]

Luck and timing have more to do with a successful airline career than skill and desire.

 

[Thedude]

Luck and timing have more to do with a successful airline career than skill and desire.

Oh, how true that is.

 

[lawfly]

Know a guy who flew B99s for 4 years as PIC and is now right seat new hire at a regional where seniority will dictate his next upgrade. Single pilot might prove nerves of steel or whatever, but CRM is where it's at in a true two pilot airplane. Some operations require both pilots to be type rated, for example. You can't really generalize about SIC positions: would depend on the type of aircraft, the operation, whether an ATP and a type was required by the operation for the right seat, upgrade opportunities, etc. I think a good case can be made that the right seat in a late model, glass cockpit bizjet (for good pay) at a solid operation requiring an ATP and a type rating for the right seat, with upgrade opportunities, is better time than single pilot in an old B99 at an operation where that is the terminal position. Depends on what your goals are, too, your age, etc.

 

[CAVOK69]

this simply means they have way too many people that want the job and you have to set the bar somewhere. I think that these airlines know, you can find a sharp guy with 1000tt and little jet exp. that will succeed at flying a 737 or 747 given the time in the sim and right seat. The top paying airlines can afford to ask for college degrees and 1000 pic jet (or 1300 pic jet) b/c they need some way of trimming down the number of qualified pilots to a managable number.

Just my opinion, not like a degree makes you fly better.

 

[Nalo Boy]

this simply means they have way too many people that want the job and you have to set the bar somewhere. I think that these airlines know, you can find a sharp guy with 1000tt and little jet exp. that will succeed at flying a 737 or 747 given the time in the sim and right seat.

Well put. We have all seen that it doesnt matter how many hours you have, how many tours you did in vietnam or how many MIG kills you have, you can still be a crappy pilot and captain.

I know only a dozen or guys that I would call " awesome pilots " and half of them dont have the "minimum experience" that we're talking about, I also know lots of guys with 10K plus PIC time that have never shut down an engine in flight etc.

But the airlines need to set the bar somewhere, and it would cost more money than they have to REALLY weed the good pilots from the bad....so get the time.