I'm having an epiphany here

[AirBadger]

Im currently enrolled in a 2 year 141 flight program at a state school. At the end of the flying and ground courses etc etc you end up with an associates degree in applied science. Now, what most people do is get their bachelor's degree by taking another 2 years of courses at another state school 45 minutes away. This was my plan as well, but Im really not sure if I want to bother with this. A bachelors degree in aviation science? Does this really even matter, to anyone? As far as I'm concerned, it's just a piece of paper to get your resume to the top of the pile. Most of the courses overlap anyway, so its just a rehash of what I know.

It just doesn't seem worth it to me taking classes I dont want to take, spending money I dont want to spend, for a degree that isn't much help at all. I don't even think college is right for me. Could it be laziness, or I'm just plain dumb? Maybe, but the last time I checked Biology and a P.E. credit (ie, bowling) have nothing to do with flying airplanes. Anyone here felt the same way? Of course I could go the route of getting a bachelor's in a completely different field for a fallback, but I think I'd be miserable spending 4 years learning something that has nothing to do with flying.

 

[crxpilot]

You're right. It's basically a big waste of time. But that is what da man has determined puts you in front of others in the big time. Good luck with that. (get the piece of paper and suck it up!)

 

[onthebeach]

Alternative.

Assuming you're going to finish your two-year flying course with comm/inst/multi/CFII/MEI certificates, I totally agree with your plan to opt out of the succeeding two years and obtain an "Airways Science" degree, which is worthless, except in the sense that it allows you to claim Bachelor's status.

For competiveness in the aviation job market, you would be much better off spending those two years obtaining an A&P certificate to add to the pilot/instructor certificates I've listed above.

A second choice, though much less valuable for those in an aviation career, would be to obtain a degree with some actual worth. Business Administration would be my top recommendation.

Finally, if you'd like a good fallback in case aviation doesn't pan out for you, you could not do better than to learn a skilled trade. I know this sounds far-fetched, but nowadays everybody wants to go into IT, but what we really need is more plumbers, HVAC installation techs, and mechanics. Have you seen the job market and the pay scales for these and other trades now?

Best to you.

 

[iflyjets4food]

Im currently enrolled in a 2 year 141 flight program at a state school. At the end of the flying and ground courses etc etc you end up with an associates degree in applied science. Now, what most people do is get their bachelor's degree by taking another 2 years of courses at another state school 45 minutes away.

Sounds like the school I went to. What schools are you talking about? I went to VU, and after completing the 2-year degree there, I went to ISU. I'll tell you from experience, ISU was a complete waste of time and money. First, the 4-year aviation degree is useless. You don't need a degree in aviation to fly for any airline or any other place that I know of. Second, by getting a degree in aviation, you've made yourself so "specialized" that you can't get a job in anything else. It's good to have a fallback plan. Everything I learned at ISU, I could have learned by taking some time to research meteorology in depth and buying the Turbine Pilot's Manual. Both of these can be done for less than $100 total. What you will have missed by doing that will be completely outweighed by getting a degree in Business Administration and/or Flight Instructing at a local FBO to get your time up. Good luck on your decision. If you want to ask me anymore questions feel free to PM me. I'll help as much as I can.

 

[AirBadger]

Texas State Technical college. Thanks, some real good advice here. My school has a good A&P program, of course along with many other technical courses. I'll probably either try the A&P route or one of the other trade programs.

 

[Goose Egg]

At the end of the flying and ground courses etc etc you end up with an associates degree in applied science.... Now, what most people do is get their bachelor's degree by taking another 2 years of courses at another state school 45 minutes away... A bachelors degree in aviation science? Does this really even matter, to anyone?

So, let me ask you this: So, if a BS degree is worthless, how much more worthless is an AS in applied science?

As far as I'm concerned, it's just a piece of paper to get your resume to the top of the pile.

Yeah, it's a piece of paper that gets your resume to the top of the pile.

would be to obtain a degree with some actual worth. Business Administration would be my top recommendation.

If we are talking about degrees with "actual worth," it should be noted that in the business world, accounting/finance degrees are far more valuable than Business Administration. An undergrad degree in business represents no particular skill, hence a job applicant with that qualification only would be basically indistinguishable from his or her competition. In short, it takes more than just a "piece" of paper to be successful.

Besides that, do some thinking about the jobs you'd be doing at the entry level in the business world--the thought makes me physically ill. I'd much rather have a few tight years as an FO but loving what I'm doing.

Funny thing, we complain about how "useless" a BS degree in aviation science is, yet we are far better off and have far more job openings at the entry level than many other career fields. Ever try to get a job in the soft sciences or arts? My girlfriend just graduated with a BA in Music Production. She was amazed that airlines would have job openings listed on their websites. The music world does not work like that at all.

In any case, I think it's a wise idea to get a BS degree. The emphasis can be anything. Aviation degrees per se aren't required or even sought after by the airlines, however, they won't hold it against you either. They just want you to have a degree.

-Goose

 

[pilotyip]

What do you want to do?

You have to decide on what you want to be a college graduate or a pilot. If is a pilot, you fly airplanes and build resume stuff. It will take approximately 10 years to get to a career position in aviation. You have to commit to the time frame to make it. Instruct, look for your next, prepare to move all over the country. Do your next two years on line in anything you want. Perhaps a degree in aviation science will do just fine if you are going to a career pilot. To not fly and get a degree may be fun but it does nothing for your flying career. Now to get a degree on the side while you are flying, nothing wrong with that. However, the fallback value of a degree is greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. After Zantop pretended to go out of went out of business in 1997, I had been a temporary High School Chemistry Teacher up until two weeks before the cargo job came along. However, they do not teach school in the summer so I had to take the cargo job. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53 year old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, and plumbing floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

 

[AirBadger]

. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

I've always considered that point about the bachelor's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't having a bachelor's degree in a field where you have no real world experience like having a type rating with no time in type? It could be very useful, but really useless as well

 

[gkrangers]

A degree will open doors no matter what.

Get a Bachelors, but get it in something useful, that interests you.

Business, Finance, Computers, etc...something useful...

 

[dseagrav]

A degree will open doors no matter what.

Get a Bachelors, but get it in something useful, that interests you.

Business, Finance, Computers, etc...something useful...

I wouldn't say that for computers anymore. CS degrees are worthless now because the technology they're based on is outdated (nobody can update a curriculum that fast) and nobody gives a fark if anyone understands the principles behind what you're doing, they just want results RIGHT NOW. Vendor-specific certifications are worth ten times what a degree is worth.

 

[gkrangers]

You are right, and I'm sure a degree + the certifications will take you a long way, and make you very good money.

 

[pilotyip]

Airbadger exactly, a college degree that is unused rapidly looses its value, and after 15-20 years is nearly useless for getting a job. Other than the "college degree preferred" ones I referred to in other thread. And if you take a degree in rapidly advancing tech field like computers. It is nearly useless even quicker. I mean get a degree if you feel it will open doors or make you fell better about yourself, but in the 10 years it takes to develop your flying career that degree becomes less useful except for checking a box on an application. So do it on the side while building flight time.

 

[gkrangers]

Airbadger exactly, a college degree that is unused rapidly looses its value, and after 15-20 years is nearly useless for getting a job. Other than the "college degree preferred" ones I referred to in other thread. And if you take a degree in rapidly advancing tech field like computers. It is nearly useless even quicker. I mean get a degree if you feel it will open doors or make you fell better about yourself, but in the 10 years it takes to develop your flying career that degree becomes less useful except for checking a box on an application. So do it on the side while building flight time.

And as we know, most airlines want that box checked. Get the degree, in something useful. Maybe it'll provide good job opportunities right off the bat, and flying becomes a hobby. Or if flying disenchants you in the first couple years, you can try using that degree. It also makes it possible to go into a masters program, opening more job opportunities, even if your bachelors degree has gotten stale.

Not too mention how much fun college can be...

 

[pilotyip]

If you are not sure you want to be a pilot and are only going to try it for a couple years. Then a college education in something that has a high probability of landing a good job is probably the right route. However if your burning desire is to a be a pilot; something you have wanted to do since age 5, then college on the side is an alternative to 4 years and $50K-$100K of debt. There is a growing pilot shortage and opportunities in the cockpit will be growing.

 

[Snakum]

I wouldn't say that for computers anymore. CS degrees are worthless now because the technology they're based on is outdated (nobody can update a curriculum that fast) and nobody gives a fark if anyone understands the principles behind what you're doing, they just want results RIGHT NOW.

Agreed. In my company, the person filling the lowest position I manage - a QA Tech - has three degrees in History, Religion, and Computer Science (done back in the 80s). My most senior Developer went to high school ... barely. In fact, one of my bosses, the most technically-awesome developer I've ever worked with, has only a high school degree. We need guys who can program their azzes off and fit in with the group, and I don't give a rats azz if he has paper or not.

About the certifications, though ... it has been my experience that too many MCSEs or Certified Java Enterprise Developers are complete idiots when it comes to actually doing the job. I'd have to say there is no substitute for busting your azz and tearing your hair out on progressively difficult IT problems.

 

[Prop2Jet]

A college degree will separate you when you're furloughed from those that work at Manards from those that work in a an office environment and make good money. Two more years go by in a blink and can save your but if you ever decide to leave this field. Stick with it, get the paper and have a sense of security for your future. You will never go back after you leave.

 

[FN FAL]

A college degree will separate you when you're furloughed from those that work at Manards from those that work in a an office environment and make good money.

Whachu talkin bout Willis? Menards has a pretty big flight department; a Citation X and a gaggle of oversized King Air looking planes.

 

[siucavflight]

get the degree, or get out of the industry.

 

[Dubya]

It doesn't matter what your degree is in....just get one. It says to ANY prospective employer that A: My education and career development is important to me, B: I have the dedication to commit myself to a goal and see it through.

Example...if aviation was not working out for me...I could fall back and get a job in Pharmaceutical Sales with a company like Bristol Meyers...making very good money. They require a 4 year degree and sales experience or a good recommendation in place of the experience. Without that degree, and mine is a relatively benign degree without a Masters (Aviation Human Factors), you could not fall back on a job like that.

How do you answer this interview question, "Why did you decide not to finish your 4 year degree?"

Answer: "All these guys on flightinfo told me it was a worthless piece of paper that didn't really matter, and I didn't feel like wasting my time and effort."

Good luck with that.

W

 

[Prop2Jet]

Good response my fellow Illini grad! I N I