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I'm having an epiphany here

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AirBadger

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Posts
2,108
Im currently enrolled in a 2 year 141 flight program at a state school. At the end of the flying and ground courses etc etc you end up with an associates degree in applied science. Now, what most people do is get their bachelor's degree by taking another 2 years of courses at another state school 45 minutes away. This was my plan as well, but Im really not sure if I want to bother with this. A bachelors degree in aviation science? Does this really even matter, to anyone? As far as I'm concerned, it's just a piece of paper to get your resume to the top of the pile. Most of the courses overlap anyway, so its just a rehash of what I know.

It just doesn't seem worth it to me taking classes I dont want to take, spending money I dont want to spend, for a degree that isn't much help at all. I don't even think college is right for me. Could it be laziness, or I'm just plain dumb? Maybe, but the last time I checked Biology and a P.E. credit (ie, bowling) have nothing to do with flying airplanes. Anyone here felt the same way? Of course I could go the route of getting a bachelor's in a completely different field for a fallback, but I think I'd be miserable spending 4 years learning something that has nothing to do with flying.
 
You're right. It's basically a big waste of time. But that is what da man has determined puts you in front of others in the big time. Good luck with that. (get the piece of paper and suck it up!)
 
Alternative.

Assuming you're going to finish your two-year flying course with comm/inst/multi/CFII/MEI certificates, I totally agree with your plan to opt out of the succeeding two years and obtain an "Airways Science" degree, which is worthless, except in the sense that it allows you to claim Bachelor's status.

For competiveness in the aviation job market, you would be much better off spending those two years obtaining an A&P certificate to add to the pilot/instructor certificates I've listed above.

A second choice, though much less valuable for those in an aviation career, would be to obtain a degree with some actual worth. Business Administration would be my top recommendation.

Finally, if you'd like a good fallback in case aviation doesn't pan out for you, you could not do better than to learn a skilled trade. I know this sounds far-fetched, but nowadays everybody wants to go into IT, but what we really need is more plumbers, HVAC installation techs, and mechanics. Have you seen the job market and the pay scales for these and other trades now?

Best to you.
 
AirBadger said:
Im currently enrolled in a 2 year 141 flight program at a state school. At the end of the flying and ground courses etc etc you end up with an associates degree in applied science. Now, what most people do is get their bachelor's degree by taking another 2 years of courses at another state school 45 minutes away.

Sounds like the school I went to. What schools are you talking about? I went to VU, and after completing the 2-year degree there, I went to ISU. I'll tell you from experience, ISU was a complete waste of time and money. First, the 4-year aviation degree is useless. You don't need a degree in aviation to fly for any airline or any other place that I know of. Second, by getting a degree in aviation, you've made yourself so "specialized" that you can't get a job in anything else. It's good to have a fallback plan. Everything I learned at ISU, I could have learned by taking some time to research meteorology in depth and buying the Turbine Pilot's Manual. Both of these can be done for less than $100 total. What you will have missed by doing that will be completely outweighed by getting a degree in Business Administration and/or Flight Instructing at a local FBO to get your time up. Good luck on your decision. If you want to ask me anymore questions feel free to PM me. I'll help as much as I can.
 
Texas State Technical college. Thanks, some real good advice here. My school has a good A&P program, of course along with many other technical courses. I'll probably either try the A&P route or one of the other trade programs.
 
AirBadger said:
At the end of the flying and ground courses etc etc you end up with an associates degree in applied science.... Now, what most people do is get their bachelor's degree by taking another 2 years of courses at another state school 45 minutes away... A bachelors degree in aviation science? Does this really even matter, to anyone?

So, let me ask you this: So, if a BS degree is worthless, how much more worthless is an AS in applied science?

As far as I'm concerned, it's just a piece of paper to get your resume to the top of the pile.

Yeah, it's a piece of paper that gets your resume to the top of the pile.

onthebeach said:
would be to obtain a degree with some actual worth. Business Administration would be my top recommendation.

If we are talking about degrees with "actual worth," it should be noted that in the business world, accounting/finance degrees are far more valuable than Business Administration. An undergrad degree in business represents no particular skill, hence a job applicant with that qualification only would be basically indistinguishable from his or her competition. In short, it takes more than just a "piece" of paper to be successful.

Besides that, do some thinking about the jobs you'd be doing at the entry level in the business world--the thought makes me physically ill. I'd much rather have a few tight years as an FO but loving what I'm doing.

Funny thing, we complain about how "useless" a BS degree in aviation science is, yet we are far better off and have far more job openings at the entry level than many other career fields. Ever try to get a job in the soft sciences or arts? My girlfriend just graduated with a BA in Music Production. She was amazed that airlines would have job openings listed on their websites. The music world does not work like that at all.

In any case, I think it's a wise idea to get a BS degree. The emphasis can be anything. Aviation degrees per se aren't required or even sought after by the airlines, however, they won't hold it against you either. They just want you to have a degree.

-Goose
 
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What do you want to do?

You have to decide on what you want to be a college graduate or a pilot. If is a pilot, you fly airplanes and build resume stuff. It will take approximately 10 years to get to a career position in aviation. You have to commit to the time frame to make it. Instruct, look for your next, prepare to move all over the country. Do your next two years on line in anything you want. Perhaps a degree in aviation science will do just fine if you are going to a career pilot. To not fly and get a degree may be fun but it does nothing for your flying career. Now to get a degree on the side while you are flying, nothing wrong with that. However, the fallback value of a degree is greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. After Zantop pretended to go out of went out of business in 1997, I had been a temporary High School Chemistry Teacher up until two weeks before the cargo job came along. However, they do not teach school in the summer so I had to take the cargo job. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53 year old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, and plumbing floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?
 
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pilotyip said:
. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

I've always considered that point about the bachelor's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't having a bachelor's degree in a field where you have no real world experience like having a type rating with no time in type? It could be very useful, but really useless as well
 
A degree will open doors no matter what.

Get a Bachelors, but get it in something useful, that interests you.

Business, Finance, Computers, etc...something useful...
 
gkrangers said:
A degree will open doors no matter what.

Get a Bachelors, but get it in something useful, that interests you.

Business, Finance, Computers, etc...something useful...
I wouldn't say that for computers anymore. CS degrees are worthless now because the technology they're based on is outdated (nobody can update a curriculum that fast) and nobody gives a fark if anyone understands the principles behind what you're doing, they just want results RIGHT NOW. Vendor-specific certifications are worth ten times what a degree is worth.
 

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