ILS, with or without the Glideslope

[172driver]

I agree with avbug. As long as you're not below LOC MDA, you may continue the approach as LOC only. It is important to realize that being familiar with and briefing the LOC approach beforehand is essential if you're going to continue.

You can be **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** sure that if I'm in the soup, the GS fails, and I haven't briefed the LOC only...I will be climbing, and fast. I hope leardvr doesn't fail people for that. No turns though until the MAP.

 

[Tri-holer]

Avbug
Gotta disagree with you on the fact that overhead will always be clear. When I did my last recurring, the captain I was with in the simulator told me of a recent event where he had to go missed. In the process, they passed 'close to' another aircraft which was overflying the field. There was one controller taking care of him and one controller talking to, and clearing the other guy over the top. He said it was pretty quiet on the radio after he told them of the conflict.

In a perfect world.

 

[avbug]

True: a mid-air can happen anywhere (but on the ground, of course). Collsions and misses occur, but one shouldn't delay a climb on the premise that traffic "might" be up there. That's rather like taking evasive action to avoid traffic one can't see.

During the missed approach, if one has indeed elected to go missed, one need not descend to MDA and stay there until the MAP. One may begin the climb, and should begin the climb after declaring the missed, even though one cannot initiate a turn until the MAP.

This is certainly a consideration at uncontrolled airports and places most likely to frequented by non participating or reporting traffic. Yesterday I saw a 172 depart under "special VFR" into conditions that were far from it. I had just flown a VOR approach to minimums in rain, mist, and the usual cruddy weather in that area. A brief discussion occured in the cockpit about people like the pilot in the 172, and the possibility of breaking out on an approach to encounter such folk. However, that could happen almost anywhere, and especially during an approach in instrument conditions, I'm not going to stay at minimums during a missed on the off chance that illicit traffic might be out there. It's always a judgement call, but then that's why we get the big bucks, right?

 

[ILS JNKY]

gs out

always start time , go missed at the map, no early turns, no early climbs this is how i have been taught so far,hope to finish insturment rating next few days.

 

[172driver]

I just don't agree with the 'no climbs' before the MAP. Altitude equals safety. As to the opinion that there may be traffic overhead...take the same approach and assume that you lose the localizer instead of the GS. Are you going to climb? I certainly hope so.

 

[JRSLim]

FAR/AIM

As per the 2002 FAR/ AIM Glossary PCG -34

'MISSED APPROACH --
a. A maneuver conducted by a pilot when an instrument approach cannot be completed to a landing. The route of flight and altitude are shown on instrument approach procedure charts. A PILOT EXECUTING A MISSED APPROACH PRIOR TO THE MISSED APPROACH POINT (MAP) MUST CONTINUE ALONG THE FINAL APPROACH TO THE MAP. THE PILOT MAY CLIMB IMMEDIATELY TO THE ALTITUDE SPECIFIED IN THE MISSED APPROACH PROCEDURE.'


I'm glad this issue got brought up here, as I was thinking that you had to stay on altitude and course. I just got the crap beat out of my by the chief instructor for a whole bunch of incorrect answers concerning MAPs.

Hope this helps
Shaun

 

[KvnD]

In the Air Force, I teach that you will transition to a localizer approach if the glideslope fails IF you are above the localizer MDA and have briefed the backup; however, during my training in Dallas for my 737 Type, I was told by the instructor that you must complete the approach that you start or go missed approach. i.e. If you lose the GS, go missed approach. I can find NOTHING to support his claim. I'll keep looking.
KD

 

[GooodLaaa]

CLIMB

CLIMB CLIMB CLIMB......but no turns!

 

[cryodon]

Be careful about climbing!

You guys climbing before the MAP watch out for us Caravan Drivers!

It is common practice for SDF to switch runways on me when I come in from the North. Just the other night they switch me from 35L to 35R at 3000 ft right over the approach end. You jet boys could get to 3000 ft in a heartbeat and ruin my whole weekend.

Maybe call the miss and see what ATC directs before going an aggressive climb out.

Cryodon

 

[avbug]

That's SOP, regardless. If it's VMC, crews should be looking because the requirement to see and avoid is not abated. If it's IMC, you won't be there, or separation will be provided.

Regardless, a pilot should report the missed approach.