Any suggestions on Flt. Planning IFR to Mexico. Our flight dept. has been using Universal to assist our operations, and it has become very expensive. We are a small flight dept. w/1 Beechjet Were looking to cut our trip cost. Any suggestions would be appreciated. How does your flight dept. plan your trips w/out dispatch? Filing, Weather, Customs etc. Gracias...
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IFR to Mexico
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Gulfstream 200
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really,
Look at the whole picture....
The few hundred dollar charge a handler might hit you with is NOT where you want to save your money when operating millions of dollars worth of plane and a boss (who no doubt) wants things to go smooth....NO WAY!
It wont worth it when you are sitting on the ramp somewhere and your flight plan is NO WHERE to be found, or the dozen other probs that will creep up on your own...
GO Universal, Base Ops...my suggestion...
Look at the whole picture....
The few hundred dollar charge a handler might hit you with is NOT where you want to save your money when operating millions of dollars worth of plane and a boss (who no doubt) wants things to go smooth....NO WAY!
It wont worth it when you are sitting on the ramp somewhere and your flight plan is NO WHERE to be found, or the dozen other probs that will creep up on your own...
GO Universal, Base Ops...my suggestion...
Indapool
25 characters is not enou
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FLT planning..Direct (DUATS)
Weather........FSS, DUATS, Weather Channel
Customs........Depends on where your going. Most important thing is to let them know your coming and what you need. Usually a fax to the handler on the airport (phone numbers in the Ac-u-kwik) with a follow-up phone call to ensure they understand your needs, to confirm the airport will be open, and that somebody will be there at your ETA. They will charge you a fee for the handling but it is minimal compared to Universal.
Bring cash. I prefer to take $1K in small bills as the fees that are usually billed to Universal sometimes need to be paid in cash.
If your going to the typical destinations, Cabo, Acapoulco, Toluca you don't need Universal.
Oh and learn Spanish
Weather........FSS, DUATS, Weather Channel
Customs........Depends on where your going. Most important thing is to let them know your coming and what you need. Usually a fax to the handler on the airport (phone numbers in the Ac-u-kwik) with a follow-up phone call to ensure they understand your needs, to confirm the airport will be open, and that somebody will be there at your ETA. They will charge you a fee for the handling but it is minimal compared to Universal.
Bring cash. I prefer to take $1K in small bills as the fees that are usually billed to Universal sometimes need to be paid in cash.
If your going to the typical destinations, Cabo, Acapoulco, Toluca you don't need Universal.
Oh and learn Spanish
falconpileit
A/C Management
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G100driver
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If the boss is complaining about the cost of a handler you might want to look at another job.
Just went to Cabo and universal charged us 1500.00. It was expensive, but worth it.
I would suggest, that if you are going to Cabo or P.V. on a regular basis, that you pay close attention to all the people that the handler deals with. Then you can do it yourself in the future. This is what the chief pilot does at our company. He does not impose his way on us line pilots though.
Good luck
Just went to Cabo and universal charged us 1500.00. It was expensive, but worth it.
I would suggest, that if you are going to Cabo or P.V. on a regular basis, that you pay close attention to all the people that the handler deals with. Then you can do it yourself in the future. This is what the chief pilot does at our company. He does not impose his way on us line pilots though.
Good luck
falconpileit
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justApilot
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Mexico really is a no brainer. You just have to be a little creative and resourceful, and remember nothing happens fast down there. Give yourself some extra time for everything. All the FBO desk staff at the large airports are very helpful. If you feel that you need a little extra help, find "el jefe" and for a few bucks he will make everything happen. If you need specifics just ask, you can get all the info you need on this board. Good luck.
If you do it yourself... under $500... dpends on ur destination. You can call the FBO directly and with popular destinations, they have handlers there.
Universal sounds about right.. about $1500..
ICCS charged us bout $1000
and that's for every destination stop-- as one trip, we went to La Paz, and a few days later, to Cabos, for a pickup. Either way, thats $2000 for ICCS plus or minus...
Either way, take lots of cash. It's when you go to unpopular destinations in Mexico is when you definitely need professional handlers... and to our American standards... it may not be that high.. lol...--
Universal sounds about right.. about $1500..
ICCS charged us bout $1000
and that's for every destination stop-- as one trip, we went to La Paz, and a few days later, to Cabos, for a pickup. Either way, thats $2000 for ICCS plus or minus...
Either way, take lots of cash. It's when you go to unpopular destinations in Mexico is when you definitely need professional handlers... and to our American standards... it may not be that high.. lol...--
Thanks for all the input, this board works fast like that. As far as the owners nope no pressure from them, just thought if we could save some cash now could possibly come our way later. Cabo is our primary destination and we do have a good relationship w/our handler down their. So Universal will soon be out of our $$ Had used the green team for many a trip just charged for everything ie $5.00 per pg. for faxes on info sometimes didn't need. Anyways, Thanks for all the suggestions. I'll continue to monitor in case any thing else pops up. & Yep greenbacks always seem to smooth any issue out.
Mexico for the most part is not difficult. You need to be patient as things happen slowly. A few tips here and there help. The amount of cash you need to bring, depnds on the aircraft and the hours you operate. After hours will be EXPENSIVE! After midnight in CABO is "Bend over Gringo" Note that you will get a better price on fuel if you use cash. About 4 - 5% minimum. Have not used handlers in Mexico for years, but there is usually someone around that will meet you and offer their services. Places like Cancun, Toluca, Cabo, PV, Cozemel and Alcapulo, you really don't need them. Some of the more remote areas, you might.
Knowing Spanish is nice, however, i have done reasonable well down there. And my Spanish is limited to:
Hello, Please, Thank you, Bathroom, Good by, My Spanish is very limited and One more beer, Senorita.
But you have been there before so it is not all that unfamiliar.
Have fun.
Knowing Spanish is nice, however, i have done reasonable well down there. And my Spanish is limited to:
Hello, Please, Thank you, Bathroom, Good by, My Spanish is very limited and One more beer, Senorita.
But you have been there before so it is not all that unfamiliar.
Have fun.
Indapool
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OH hell if your doing Cabo just take Victor or Adrian a 12 pack of beer each time you go. You will be amazed at how far it goes
Seriously, just fax them with your needs, call them 15 minutes later, take some cash for the fees (along with the beer) and you will be golden. There are places in the US that are a bigger PIA
Seriously, just fax them with your needs, call them 15 minutes later, take some cash for the fees (along with the beer) and you will be golden. There are places in the US that are a bigger PIA
slickmagneto
Going around!!!
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INSURANCE
You didn't say if this was your first trip to Mexico.
If it is you are REQUIRED to buy a mexican insurance policy for your aircrarft. Your local ins. agent can obtain one for you. Carry it with you on the flight.
It is also wise to have a letter authorizing the pilot to operate the airplane while in the country, on company letterhead, signed by the CEO.
Have a fun trip.
You didn't say if this was your first trip to Mexico.
If it is you are REQUIRED to buy a mexican insurance policy for your aircrarft. Your local ins. agent can obtain one for you. Carry it with you on the flight.
It is also wise to have a letter authorizing the pilot to operate the airplane while in the country, on company letterhead, signed by the CEO.
Have a fun trip.
G100driver
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808Flyer,
The very first thing you need to do is follow this link to the Int'l. Flight Info. Manual (IFIM): http://www1.faa.gov/ats/aat/ifim/. Comply with it and you will be legal.
The very first thing you need to do is follow this link to the Int'l. Flight Info. Manual (IFIM): http://www1.faa.gov/ats/aat/ifim/. Comply with it and you will be legal.
Limeyflyer
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Watch some of those handlers. Most of them are very good ,however we had one when we went into Juarez who along with the customs agent wanted to pimp the captain out of 1600 bucks cash for not having an exit stamp from his last trip to Mexico in his passport. All our exit stamps happen to be on our flight plans given to our handlers. Just dont get jacked and mexico is all good.
Swerpipe
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The cheap way...
1. File a border crossing flight plan and notify custums of when you are coming back.
2. Open the charts and file to Mexico using the Upper Tangos and Upper Julliet airways like a nice instrument student
3. After landing give immigration your paperwork, your FOs and passengers
4. Close the flight plan with the almighty "Commandante" while you slip him a $20. Also, show him your insurance and pay immigration fees (DSM)
5.When you leave go to operaciones, camandante and immigration pay fees, file the flight plan and hand out "mordidas"(ugly word for tip) to everyone who appears to threaten you.
6. Get the F%^&*@^& out of there
7. Call the flight service station about 30 minutes prior to crossing the border. I use 122.6 in San Diego
8. If you are Part 91 you will not need a bond if you are part 135 you will. Produce your certificate, medical, aircraft registration and airworthiness, your passport and your customs paperwork to the customs officer.
9.Leave your border crossing airport happy to be back!
I usually do it for 0 to 120 bucks depending on how many jerks I encounter. I usually play good cop/bad cop with my FO ( I am the bad cop) as we deal with the different personalities.
Don't sweat it, there is nothing a little dinero can't fix. I still wish I was working for someone that would pay out the $1500.00. Good luck and be careful with the senoritas....
P.S. Many airports don't have chocks. Find a rock
Many airports have the same architectural design, so you will think you have been there before even if you have not
You only need a few times to get profficient at it but you can offer 60 bucks and make a handler out of anyone
1. File a border crossing flight plan and notify custums of when you are coming back.
2. Open the charts and file to Mexico using the Upper Tangos and Upper Julliet airways like a nice instrument student
3. After landing give immigration your paperwork, your FOs and passengers
4. Close the flight plan with the almighty "Commandante" while you slip him a $20. Also, show him your insurance and pay immigration fees (DSM)
5.When you leave go to operaciones, camandante and immigration pay fees, file the flight plan and hand out "mordidas"(ugly word for tip) to everyone who appears to threaten you.
6. Get the F%^&*@^& out of there
7. Call the flight service station about 30 minutes prior to crossing the border. I use 122.6 in San Diego
8. If you are Part 91 you will not need a bond if you are part 135 you will. Produce your certificate, medical, aircraft registration and airworthiness, your passport and your customs paperwork to the customs officer.
9.Leave your border crossing airport happy to be back!
I usually do it for 0 to 120 bucks depending on how many jerks I encounter. I usually play good cop/bad cop with my FO ( I am the bad cop) as we deal with the different personalities.
Don't sweat it, there is nothing a little dinero can't fix. I still wish I was working for someone that would pay out the $1500.00. Good luck and be careful with the senoritas....
P.S. Many airports don't have chocks. Find a rock
Many airports have the same architectural design, so you will think you have been there before even if you have not
You only need a few times to get profficient at it but you can offer 60 bucks and make a handler out of anyone
Last edited:
dpilot_citation
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avpro91
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Our 135 Company is pretty small 12 A/C. When we do international trips to mexico, caribbean, and SA, we do all our own planning. Looking up the customs info and filing all our own flight plans and stuff, has always seemed to work out, and not to hard to get info on what each countries req.s are. Depending on where we go, we'll get a handler for when we get there. We routinely go to Haiti and the dominican rep. without a problem.
Hawker rider
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mexico isn't a big deal at all!
We fly lears in and out of mexico all the time with freight and air ambulance, pax a little less, but nonetheless. We started out having a handler but that ends up just being a big cost that ou don't really need, nowadays we do everything ourself, just make sure that at anycustoms office you go to, take a few papers with you to have in your airplane, make copies if you just want a bunch of empty forms. We fill them out on the flight over there, and we plan the flight just like any other flight, look up the miles in the GPS, look at the high-chart and find some airways until you hit the US border,from there just /g direct.
I have hardly ever ran into problems in Mexico, and ABSOLUTELY never went any dinero out of pocket for services that I needed. And I won't either. I need to sa that I hardly speak spanish, but you'll catch on to what they are saying in front of you soon enough.
All in all, it seems that everywhere outside the USA The (local)aviation authority and customs seem to work very close together. As opposed to the US where the FAA and the customsservice have absolutely nothing in common with eachother.
We fly lears in and out of mexico all the time with freight and air ambulance, pax a little less, but nonetheless. We started out having a handler but that ends up just being a big cost that ou don't really need, nowadays we do everything ourself, just make sure that at anycustoms office you go to, take a few papers with you to have in your airplane, make copies if you just want a bunch of empty forms. We fill them out on the flight over there, and we plan the flight just like any other flight, look up the miles in the GPS, look at the high-chart and find some airways until you hit the US border,from there just /g direct.
I have hardly ever ran into problems in Mexico, and ABSOLUTELY never went any dinero out of pocket for services that I needed. And I won't either. I need to sa that I hardly speak spanish, but you'll catch on to what they are saying in front of you soon enough.
All in all, it seems that everywhere outside the USA The (local)aviation authority and customs seem to work very close together. As opposed to the US where the FAA and the customsservice have absolutely nothing in common with eachother.
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