If You Are Applying to NetJets

[Majik]

Make sure you are aware of the following facts before you commit:

1. 1st year FO pay is $27,108 before taxes

2. 2nd year FO pay is $28,368 before taxes

3. Be prepared to remain an FO on that payscale for at least 2 years, maybe longer. The days of captain bypass pay are over for a long time.

4. There is still a training contract. If you decide to leave within the 1st year of employment you will have to pay back that full amount. If you leave after your 1st year but before the end of your 2nd year you will have to pay back 1/2 of your training costs.

5. Morale here is terrible. Pilots (myself included) gripe all day about how we were bamboozled into believing things were going to dramatically improve. The end always seemed 6 months out. That was over 3 years ago. Now the end seems at least a year out. What does that tell you?

6. Our affiliation with Local 284 (hmmm, how do I say this) sucks! Our insurance changed with only one day's notice. It was literally rammed down our throats months ago and the President of 284, Harold Powell, has yet to respond to the many inquiries from the membership as to why this change of benefits occurred without the membership's approval or timely notification. There have been other instances like this. Much too slowly the membership is starting to realize that we cannot trust our union's leadership (if you can call it that). Are you sure you still want to come to work here?

7. I wish someone had been this honest with me before I came here over 4 years ago. Would I have still come to NetJets? I don't know but I sure as heck would have explored other options much more thoroughly before making the final choice.

8. Finally, what if we ever get the ability to strike. Here you'll be, a probationary pilot for the 1st year, when you are asked to not show up for work. Will you risk termination by the company, or honor the membership's picket line? What protection will this union provide a probationary pilot? Better make sure you know the answer before you make that big leap, because that will be a decision that you will have to live with for the rest of your aviation career.

One day NetJets may become a good place to work. I would recommend that a potential applicant wait until that day is at hand before making that kind of committment. Surely you can find something to do that will earn $28k for the next 2 or so years until that day comes. Just something to consider.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

I just dont get it.

Was F/O pay not published when you got hired?

Did you sign on based on verbal promises and rumors of upgrades, contracts, and benefits??? (If yes, thats scary)

I can see the reason for the morale, bitchin' etc...you deserve FAR FAR more, but dont you people spend maybe 10 mins researching a job before signing up???

 

[Col. Angus]

I just dont get it.

Was F/O pay not published when you got hired?

Did you sign on based on verbal promises and rumors of upgrades, contracts, and benefits??? (If yes, thats scary)

I can see the reason for the morale, bitchin' etc...you deserve FAR FAR more, but dont you people spend maybe 10 mins researching a job before signing up???

It's simple. There was no research to be done. The vast hiring bubble at Netjets is post 9/11. About 1000 pilots straight from the unemployment line to a job that was at a booming company. Would you really have me tell my three kids that unemployment is better than the same income as unemployment plus a full medical plan? Get real. My "Plan B" is more flying!

The facts from the above post are offered as a service to those who have many more opportunities available to them than the 9/11 crowd did. I, for one, would have never considered fractional had I not been thrown to the street on 9/12/01. Period.

Potential hires may also be intetested in knowing:

The scales that the "union" is fighting for are still going to be 20-30% LOWER than NBAA pay for an equivalent airframe.

We have a new MEC election in October, and the incumbants face a sound defeat by at least one group of well-organized "hard-liners." These hard liners want more support from Local 284, or their own local under the airline division. They want vigorous contract enforcement. They want a single carrier for Netjets. Things will get ugly for the company, the local, and the pilots.

Chances are good that the first TA will fail and we will be pushed to the eve of a strike.

Until then, this place is a sweatshop. 14 hours/10 hours/14hours/10 hours/ignored fatigue call/14 hours/sick call/call in well/14 hours/10 hours and on and on and on.

So please, for the love of Aviation and your family - steer clear of a "career" at Netjets. Believe me, when things get better, there'll be no shortage of morons bragging about it.

 

[mobie]

Net Jets

I would think that some would go to Net Jets just for the type not out of their pocket. Start networking the FBO's and trying to get the payoff from the new corp. job.

It would give them the type and time in aircraft so they could get a job that pays the NBAA standard.

Mobie

 

[Col. Angus]

The Type at Netjets is not free.

You sign yourself up for 24 months. You leave before 24 months is up and you owe them FSI sticker prices for the initial. A one-time deal for that first airplane - so subsequent agreements when you change fleets or seats.

These agreements may or may not be legal depending on where you live, but that doesn't matter to NJA - the agreement you sign before you begin sim is a repayment agreement. They pull the old sledge-hammer-on-fly routine and send at least one high-powered attorney to ruin your credit. Seen it done several times in the first half of 2002.

This is not PFT, but rather, SFT (Slave-for training). This notwithstanding, things are going to get ugly around here. I understand that working at Citation Shares is a nice, clean, straight-forward, fair-paying operation. Save yourself while you still can.

 

[Just Peachy]

The above 4 entries pretty much sums it up and paint a very fair picture at NJA right now. The company has offered ( so we are told because nobody has seen it in writing) a good benifits package. The pay offered is in the crapper.....

Most, if not all, the troops will walk if the pay comes in as low as rumored. So it becomes a standoff right now with the company offering low pay, and the pilots wanting much higher.

It could get ugly as metioned before as there will be a union election in a few months and the new group will be much more militant. Puts new hires in a bad positon, walking the company line or the picket line.

Right now I could not recommend anyone coming on board unless they are starving or have no skill level to sell ( you probably wouldnt make it thru the training process anyway with low skill levels). Being an FO for 3 to 5 years isent such a hot proposition with the pay so low.

What pisses most of us off is it took 3 years to get where we'er at now... and, the group im in was told both by company and union officials, "you'll have a contract in 6 month, so dont worry about the low pay.

"

 

[Snakeplt]

G200 is that your input to the thread ? There is a large furloughed community here at Netjets that wanted to STAY FLYING and earn SOME INCOME right after we lost our jobs at the Majors post 9/11. EVERYTHING NOTED ABOUT NUTJETS IS TRUE ABOVE, but you have to come and throwup all over the board again...you think that "researching" NUTJETS would have deterred us from coming here when notody else was hiring ? NO, you idiot ! YES WE KNEW WHAT WE WERE SIGNING UP FOR and your condescending attitude makes me want to slap you upside your stinkin' head ! ....but anyway, what is it to you smartass ? You are an irritating #(*&#$ !

And for all of you who ARE thinking of coming to NUTJETS....JUST SAY HELL NO !!! I PROMISE YOU WILL HATE YOURSELF IF YOU ACCEPT THE JOB OFFER FROM THIS SCUMBAG OUTFIT...ESPECIALLY NOW THAT THERE ARE A MYRIAD OF OTHER JOBS OUT THERE !!! I have flown at the regional, cargo and major airline level and the ONLY REASON anyone should even CONSIDER coming to FOCKJETS is if you lose your job for whatever reason, and THERE IS NO OTHER FLYING OPTION. NEWS FLASH: The civilian airline industry has made a pretty dramatic comeback (hiring) and THERE ARE MUCH BETTER JOBS OUT THERE NOW THAN THIS SH*THOLE ! It has RECOVERED enough to find a decent job somewhere else...DON'T COME TO NUTJETS....IT SUCKS BIG DAWG ASS HERE...JUST LISTEN TO ME DAM.N IT !

 

[wingnutt]

what? you expect me to belive NetJets was the ONLY place hiring that would allow you to keep food on the table, or is it the only place that would hire you...big difference

i have a hard time believing the former, but after reading your opinions of late, the latter makes a whole lot more sense

 

[wingnutt]

...and yes, i know how to spell believe

 

[Majik]

I think most of us came here for what we thought (right or wrong) was the potential of the job, not the posted FO pay. The company was growing like a weed. Potential for the salary to meet or exceed NBAA average, 7/7 schedule for all, live basically where ever you want, fly from home (no commute), ability to change domiciles monthly, less risk for furlough or closing the company flight department, flying new equipment, defined work rules and scope protection, etc...

No, there were other places to go. Some paid less, some paid more, but not many appeared to have the potential for growth and job security after 9/11 like NJA.

This job still has the ability to pay higher than NBAA average. The problem and most of our frustration is that (for some unknown reason) our union leadership has failed to take the steps that most of us thought were necessary to persuade the company to pay market prices for its pilots. That potential is definitely still there and I'm sure will be explored when a new MEC is elected in October. It just seems like 3 years of negotiations would have yielded better results and now that time appears to have been wasted.

Don't misunderstand me, we are very disappointed but we have not given up. This place still has all of the potential I described above and we will elect a new leadership and start from there. The point of the original post was to warn potential applicants that it may be 2 more years before any of these things are realized, if they ever are, and that they should consider this information prior to accepting the job.

 

[sweptwingz]

Well said....

Majik, your reply was excellent and accurate. We came here for the potential.
Let's hope it pays off.

 

[Schrode]

I "researched" the industry, had three job offers, and at the time mind you, NetJets had the best future, so I went there.

I am optimistic about NetJets, but unfortunately, the above posts are accurate. This may not be the time to be on probation, because the pilot group will strike to achieve our goals. We will not allow SCABS. And the Company will not allow a probation employee to strike . . . will the Union support you? Not so sure, I would hope so, but you will not be paying dues until probation is over. Tough decisions. But really, not too tough considering the current pay.

I am not here to bash NetJets, or to bash our Union. This is a difficult time, but it is the difficult times that define who we are. We are a strong pilot group, if we were not, this would be over by now with another sub-standard contract. In the long run NetJets will do well - but for the next year it is very uncertain. All good jobs out there came from good companies that argued against a good contract, and either lost or compromised their position. None ever just gave away great benifits and great money.

All I ask here is that the Pilots not be bashed and trashed for working here. They are a great group of people for the most part. What you may read here is a lot of frustration and pent anger - remember that. Leave us to correct this problem in the industry and many others will benifit from our hard work and solidarity.

Good luck to all - here we go.

 

[Lrjet55]

If You Are Applying to NetJets...

DONT!!!!!

Seriously though, here is the most honest answer I can give and a few reasons why.

At NJA you will not make any money, plain and simple. As it stands under our current MEC we will be lucky to make 90K at year 5. These are not my numbers but rather figures direct from Dave V.

At NJA you will work more than you ever have. Were usually that busy especially in the Ultra, Excel and the X.

You will be given crew food pretty much without question and you will generaly stay in good hotels. You will not have these great airline overnights where you hang out for a day or 2 seeing the sights unless your in maint.

Many times you will be dicked over by the company in such a manner you wish you never came here. On the other hand if you ever had a family emergency the company would either send you home or fly you home in a company aircraft. Truly amazing.

You will get in to a destination at 6:00 pm one night and briefed for a trip at 10:00 am the next morning just to be called out at legal at 4:00 am then pushed to work a full 14 hour day.

They will mess with you on your last day and get you home at 11:45 pm because they can and they feel they own you until midnight on your last day. You will, however, have a schedule that you can plan weeks in advance and you do not have to commute.

You will have your uniforms paid for and have a $400 stipend per year for new ones which comes in handy after you eat all the deserts that come with the crew food and you get fat. lol

There are many subtle upsides to NJA. Stability, growth, new airplanes, schedule...etc
There are many obvious downsides. Low pay, odd work schedules meaning never knowing what you are doing....etc.

The one problem we will run into again at NJA is the experience of applicants. 5 years ago we had guys coming into the company with very little experience. The company took advantage of this and we are where we are now. We had alot of folks who were just happy to be flying a jet and making over $30,000. With the influx of the furloughed, military and grumpy corporate guys things have changed a bit but due to the current status of negotiations and the projected output we stand to not gain very much.

Also with the gateway system as it will come out you will be forced to move to an RCA. This coupled with the low pay will not attract alot of candidates. I spoke with a friend in hiring and they are having trouble filing slots. We had several guys walk out of indoc the other day because they found better jobs. Its a defining time for NJA, if you are willing to be a part of an interesting future then welcome aboard. I caution things will be rough for a while.

If the Strong Union is elected there is tremendous potential for a strike provided the NMB releases us.(thats a whole nother story in itself)


If you do come here leave any preconceived notions behind and form your own opinion. The one thing you must do is not settle. Our previous bro's and sis settled and that has caused the mentality of the company to be as it stands. Come here and make a difference.

 

[niteflyr]

I have a hard time with the "strong pilot group" I hear referred to, they are strong as long as the MEC is rumored to be getting what they want. Lately everyone is turning on the current MEC and the "strong" union is falling apart because it is "rumored" they are not getting what they want. Somehow the grass is always greener somewhere, they all think a new MEC with the same Local and the same legal rep battling the same company with the same mediator is going to be dramatically different. I guess it will give some new names to blame it all on. A truly strong union would support the MEC until an agreement shows up in the box and you get the full story of how that agreement came about. Too many think we just vote no and go on strike and get whatever we want. If only it were that simple, there are a lot more parties involved than that. (Can I hear RLA again??) I hope some rational thought comes into everyones mind when the TA arrives and they read it for what it is and decide. We could easily drag this out several more years over $1,000 more dollars a month, meanwhile we stay at the same wages for all that time and possibly no wages for the strike period for maybe $600 after tax dollars?? People need to stay rational here...

 

[Otter]

I have friends at NetJets and I feel for them. They dont seem happy, but are economically trapped now.

I have to say that the idea that a fellow pilot could get hired, have no protection, therefore no way to stike, and making the pitance wages a new hire FO makes and now be a SCAB even though they are already on property is harsh. While I understand this is the way of unionized labor forces, first and foremost you are all pilots at that company, union or not. While I know it is not the thought of the labor group, they are not arriving post stike or meaning to cross a line, just unlucky in when they are hired.

A vague and dimished picture to the pilots that took the job hoping the pay would be better and the company would grow, I assume they would take the job with hopes a stike would not happen. They would appear to be no more at fault or mislead than those that are already there....well as illustrated further up in this chain of posts.

Not meant as flame bait, just struck me as a very harsh reality. Of course I am just a corp guy, no union at our place and had a lot of coffee today and am now pontificating, again not meant as flame bait, it must be the coffee I just keep typing.

I "researched" the industry, had three job offers, and at the time mind you, NetJets had the best future, so I went there.

I am optimistic about NetJets, but unfortunately, the above posts are accurate. This may not be the time to be on probation, because the pilot group will strike to achieve our goals. We will not allow SCABS. And the Company will not allow a probation employee to strike . . . will the Union support you? Not so sure, I would hope so, but you will not be paying dues until probation is over. Tough decisions. But really, not too tough considering the current pay.

I am not here to bash NetJets, or to bash our Union. This is a difficult time, but it is the difficult times that define who we are. We are a strong pilot group, if we were not, this would be over by now with another sub-standard contract. In the long run NetJets will do well - but for the next year it is very uncertain. All good jobs out there came from good companies that argued against a good contract, and either lost or compromised their position. None ever just gave away great benifits and great money.

All I ask here is that the Pilots not be bashed and trashed for working here. They are a great group of people for the most part. What you may read here is a lot of frustration and pent anger - remember that. Leave us to correct this problem in the industry and many others will benifit from our hard work and solidarity.

Good luck to all - here we go.

 

[Snakeplt]

"These guys once PAID ME to work here and they think they will get that pie-in-the-sky, huge salary increase ? You must be joking !"

-Richard T. Santulli



Now did anyone want to debate PFT again ?

 

[Lrjet55]

I chose to come here, was not furloughed or fired.

This is not the company people think it is. I caution anyone thinking of coming here.

If you are looking for money and quality of life this is not the place for you. Those are the simple facts that are lost in these discussions.

If you are looking for a temporary home, build some jet time, maybe get some PIC time then this could be your shot. At that point its your call.

If you were imagining NJA as your career then lease research a little more.

NJA is a stepping stone like going to a regional, thats it. You will build more time at a regional but you will make a little more money at NJA, not much but some.

The problem with many of us is we came here thinking NJA would be a career job. If you start working somewhere thinking this for under what ever circumstances or pretences and then it does not happen you become very
angry very quick. Thats where we are now. Its all about attitude and expectations.


As for the Stron Union, it will make a difference. The people running are coming from the major airlines and cargo. Their approaches will be different and at the very least the company will held responsible for violating the contract. As it stands right now a grievance files takes years to be decided.

 

[flx757]

As for the Stron Union, it will make a difference.

The Stron Union. Never heard of that one. Let's see. Heard of ALPA, the Teamsters, the various independent unions like the APA, NPA and SWAPA. Maybe the Stron Union is one of those independents?

Or maybe it's an individual, come to the rescue. "Hi...I'm Stron Union...saviour of oppressed pilots everywhere."

(Sorry. Boring around here today. Carry on with your debate... )

 

[Lrjet55]

I can undesrtand the joking pessimism. Its fair.


The new MEC running is a good mix of retired and furloughed airline folks who can, for once, make a difference.

Starting July 26 visit www.Strongunion.org

 

[kingtut]

Strong Union. "The job of the union is not to save jobs. The job of the union is to make it a better place to work when you get back from your forced vacation." The senior will take care of the senior. So says the APA senior guys. Butt heads.

New MEC, OK, but do not hold your breath about movement on the contract.