If United files chapter 11...

[BlueRidger]

Sorry about the double post the computer told me the first one did not go through.

 

[RJPilott]

BLRer... you can delete a post if you like. Go to the edit button and there should be a delete function. Personally, I like the second one better

 

[Pilot877]

Keep Both!!

 

[Rvrrat]

The sky is falling! The sky is falling.

Gotta love the Financial guru/Pilot posts.

Don't forget that Chapter 11 is NOT Chapter 13.
Chapter 11 is a simple business tool to use when the calculators either break or are unable to display the required amount of digits behind a minus sign.

 

[Rottweiller]

Rotweiler,
What hole did you pull that info out of about UAL owning ACA's planes. ACA leases the planes from a variety of lessors which provide the finanacing. Each and every plane is required to carry a placard of who the official owner is. Most of our planes say First Security Bank of Utah (yes ACA) not UAL.

You are right in that ACA goes and finds the lessors and this would be shown on the ownership. However it is United that pay the loan on the vast majority these aircraft.

This is not pulled out of a hole in the wall but from a VERY reliable source in United HO.

I have no ill feelings for ACA, have many friends flying there. Just pointing out a fact.

 

[cl65@350]

I just don't UNDERSTAND GUYS!

well..the original poster said the GOOD, and the BAD that can come from UAL going chapter 11....

Unless all of us REGIONAL pilots want our career expectations flushed down the toilet.........................THEN there is NOTHING GOOD about UAL going chapter 11. No, i don't want to hear posts from 3000 hour crj fo's...it is the CAPT's on the crj with more than a few 1000 hours of PIC that I am talking to...

If UAL goes chapter 11, there will be ramifications industry-wide...thus DELAYING FOLKS our chance of a "real" job! Not to say we don't have good jobs...but do we really want to spend the rest of our lives in the minor leagues? I DON"T...therefore, I do not see ANYTHING good coming from a ual chapter 11 except for junior crj fo's trying to build time...my only question to those folks are....building time for WHAT? You'll have 12K hours of PIC before the big boys hire again if ual goes chapter 11!

 

[sleepy]

Remember that even if United folds (a very unlikely scenario) there will be an awful lot of jets available for the Delta Connection sides of the SkyWest and ACA houses.

We are already at our scope limits. Adding anymore contract carrier airline capacity would mean shrinking ASA or Comair. Unless that was done to attack the ASA union (we are in contract talks) it is unlikely to happen. ASA and Comair both provide more revenue to DAL than any of the contract carriers.

Why would DAL pay more for ACA or Skywest than United? If United gets to renegotiate their contract with these contract carriers under CH 11, then why wouldn't DAL seek to renegotiate their contracts as well?

I don't see how a United CH 11 would have any up-side for these contract carriers.

 

[A4Forever]

GENTLEMEN: Don't be too hasty in thinking that UAL will abrogate all the contracts if they declare C11. It is my understanding that all agreements must remain in place until such time that UAL convinces the bankruptcy judge that they have tried unsuccessfully to reach agreement with the unions to restructure the current contracts.. Only then could the judge allow the agreements to be modified. If that were to happen, it would be "down the road" so to speak. Word on the street is that there will be an additional 550 UAL pilots joining the ranks of the furloughed come Jan 1, 2003 and that a recovery plan is being undertaken with or without bankruptcy.

 

[Booker]

GENTLEMEN: Don't be too hasty in thinking that UAL will abrogate all the contracts if they declare C11. It is my understanding that all agreements must remain in place until such time that UAL convinces the bankruptcy judge that they have tried unsuccessfully to reach agreement with the unions to restructure the current contracts.

To add, it's also my understanding that the unions that have signed TAs thus far (at least ALPA and AFA) also have 1113 letters.

 

[Publishers]

Variations

Under Chapter 11, there are a midrad of things that could happen. Not the least of which is the damage done to current shareholders including the employees who own a substantial portion of the airline.

Secondly, it does not mean that they can just forget their lessors and throw the contracts in the trash. You must remember that there are both operating leases and finance leases.

Likewise, the position of various lenders changes, their may be several types of deals with their regionals.

While Chapter 11 deals with that which has gone on before, it does not mean these same people have to do business with you now. Nor do they have to accept terms now they do not want.

The only positive in this is that the industry is such that the options people have to move aircraft etc are limited