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skyking1976

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2002
Posts
1,057
I got this in an email from my Dad (a Vietnam vet). I would like to take this opportunity to say "Thank You" to all of the brave men and women who have and who currently are defending our country and our way of life.

Skyking


REMEMBER JANE

Subj: KEEP THIS MOVING; ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all
the kids born in the 70's that do not remember this, and didn't have to bear
the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to
bear. Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century."
Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never
known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific
men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry
Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival
School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinking
cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered
to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane
treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged
away.

During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's
feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered
from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the
Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. From 1963-65, Col.
Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the
"Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife
lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned,
fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that
they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN
on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a
cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little
encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are
you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?"
Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper.


She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once
the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned
to the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three men
died from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but
he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured
by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for
over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage
in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese
captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a
leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near
the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170
lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political
officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I
would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different
from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane
Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a
rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel
placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I
was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She
did not answer me.

This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years
of Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never
include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many
patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but
Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them.

Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It
will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will
never forget.
 
Jane Fonda

Good post.

Jane Fonda certainly isn't one of my favorites, either. What a "fine" American. :mad:
 
Sorry, but it is not true. Hanoi Jane has done enough traitorous acts in her time, but she did not do this
 
One problem

This is over two to three years old. Althought the info in it is correct, the news is old. I believe it started sometime in 99 to be released in 00. Anyway, I agree with the fact this woman is a piece of Sh$t. People like her, need to be given the same treatment. I personally love to piss on a JF urinal sticker. Makes for great conversation. My heart and payers go out to all fallen soldiers as well as POW's.:(

414 - You sir are mistaken. It did happen. This specific incident was briefed (by DOD) to a group that I was associated with (mil) many years ago. She is a work of art!
 
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Sorry, it's not true

Dude,

As much as I hate to say this, it is not true. Check out

www.pownetwork.org

They don't know where this story got started.

Regards,

SR
 
To all those who dispute the validity of the information that I provided, I have one question. Were you there? Did you actually witness the events? I know people that were there and did see this travesty take place. I have listened to the frightening and repulsive stories that were told about Hoa Lo. My advice to you, sonny, is keep your f'in mouth shut and appreciate what these soldiers have done for you.

Infuriated,
Skyking :mad:
 
Skyking,

I have the utmost respect for all servicemen, past and present. Additionally, I have nothing but contempt for JF because of her visit to Vietnam and what she did there. However, that does not give one carte blanche to embelish stories to further vilify Ms. Fonda. Here is an account from a group that does its homework. While they validate the general account of the actual visit to Vietnam, they pick apart some of the preposterous and inflammatory details:

snopes.com--Jane Fonda

The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above -- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result -- are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatory e-mail categorically deny the events they supposedly were part of.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."

The tale about a defiant serviceman who spit at Jane Fonda and is severely beaten as a result is often attributed to Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll. He has repeatedly stated on the record that it did not originate with him.

You offer up one question to rebut the naysayers here. That question is, "were you there?" However, even you are not able to answer that question in the affirmative. You rely on second and third-hand accounts to support your stance. I submit that you support the story because you want it to be true, and that you and your friends are suffering from "manufactured memory", an example of which is detailed quite humorously here:

snopes.com--Johnny Carson

One can greatly appreciate what these soldiers have done for them without blindly accepting a story as truth which on its surface is clearly exaggerated.
 
True or not is immaterial ...

I'm not a 'Hawk', and in fact I am strongly AGAINST the current/upcoming action in Iraq. Had I been old enough, I would have protested the Vietnam war, as well. And I even gave five years of my life so that Ms. Fonda has the freedom to publicly make an a$$ of herself.

However ... fraternizing with, and allowing herself to be used for political purposes, by the enemies of our country WHILE AMERICANS WERE DYING IN RICE PADDIES has gotta be treason.

Life in prison would be fitting, methinks. Only because I'm against the death penalty (and against abortion too).

Minh
 
JCJ said:
wasn't Driscoll navy not usaf?

I THINK............that Driscoll was Randal"Duke" Cunningham's WSO. If thats the Driscoll you are thinking of he was Navy. They got 3 Migs on may 10th '72 then got hit by a SAM and had to punch out.

Interesting side note I found an aviation art store with paintings autographed by Cunningham and Driscoll. The coolest thing I found (and bought:) ) was a very nice picture of 4 p-51s flying low and fast. The cool thing is it is autographed by Chuck Yeager, COL. Anderson, Capt. William O'Brian, and Capt. William Overstreet. The even cooler thing is that in the frame of the painting is a photograph of Yeager and Anderson signing the painting!!!! A real peice of history. Anyway sorry to get off topic but if anyone wants the adress let me know. The veitnam F-4 painting are pretty cool and autographed in the same fashion.
 
Re: True or not is immaterial ...

Snakum said:
However ... fraternizing with, and allowing herself to be used for political purposes, by the enemies of our country WHILE AMERICANS WERE DYING IN RICE PADDIES has gotta be treason.
Which begs the question, why are the Sean Penns of the modern world not tarred and feathered like Jane was/is?
 
Iraq, Bosnia and Afghan Veteran

Skyking,

I, too, despise Hanoi Jane. I ran across this information while learning about my father's friends that were POWs. My father was an F-100 pilot in the AF. I have served in SWA, Bosnia and Afghanistan. If I am going to slam somebody, I am going to do my homework. Stating things that did not happen only takes away from an argument.

FROM POWNETWORK.ORG

Claim: Fonda betrayed POWs by turning over slips of paper they gave her to their captors. POWs were beaten and died as a result.

Status: FALSE. "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, who was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda," he told me. It goes without saying he never handed her a secret message.

He confessed that he did see Fonda once while he was a POW - on film. He recalled the night when he and the rest of the 80 or so men he was interned with were called out into the prison courtyard, "the first time we'd been outside under the stars in 5 or 6 years." As they all stood there wondering what was in store for them, a projector started whirring in the background. Their captors proceeded to show them footage of Jane Fonda's visit to Hanoi.

Claim: A POW spit at Fonda, for which he was brutally beaten.

Status: FALSE. This story is attributed in the email to former Air Force pilot Jerry Driscoll, who says it's false and did not originate from him. I wasn't able to speak with Driscoll directly, but Mike McGrath and Paul Galanti,
fellow officers of the Nam-POWs organization to which Driscoll belongs, told me he unequivocally disavows the story.

McGrath, by the way, who's the president of Nam-POWs, has been trying for the better part of a month to help Driscoll and Carrigan squelch the false rumors circulating under their names.

"They would like to get their names removed but the story seems to have a life of its own," he told me. "There are a lot of folks out there who would love to have a story like that to hang their hat and their hate on."

Claim: POWs were beaten for refusing to cooperate or meet with Fonda during her visit.

Status: TRUE. The final anecdote in the "Hanoi Jane" message recounts the experience of a POW who agreed to meet with Fonda but announced to his captors that he planned on telling her how horrid conditions in North Vietnamese prison camps really were.

"Because of this," the narrative continues, "I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a piece of steel placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane every time my arms dipped."

Those words were written by Michael Benge, a civilian advisor captured by the Viet Cong in 1968 and held as a POW for 5 years. When I contacted him, he confirmed that the story was indeed his, and true.

Benge's original statement, entitled "Shame on Jane," was published in April by the Advocacy and Intelligence Network for POWs and MIAs. The nameless, faceless author of the "Hanoi Jane" message evidently picked
it up from a Web page or a newsgroup and combined it with fabricated stories to create the forwarded text. Some versions now circulate with Benge's name appended, others quote his statement anonymously.

"None of us are members of the Jane Fonda Fan Club"

A good cause is never well-served by lies, and that's how all of the ex-POWs I spoke to or corresponded with about the falsehoods in this message felt. Paul Galanti said: "None of us are members of the Jane Fonda Fan Club, but these fabrications are something she just did not do."

No one had an answer to the question "Who made up these stories and why?" but both Carrigan and McGrath expressed doubt that it was a POW.

"She did enough to place her name in the trash bin of history," McGrath explained. "None of us need to make up stories on her."

Jane Fonda could not be reached for comment.


Skyking,

I really do appreciate your appreciation of the military and all veterans like myself. Lately, it seems, there are not that many people like yourself that will stand up for veterans. Many military members are taken for granted until they are needed.

Take care,

SR
 
Skyking,

Don't spread this crap unless you do your homework. This was debunked many years ago. Why not warn us about the guy who woke up in the bath tub full of ice, missing his kidney?

Check out the site "urbanlegend" the next time you hear one of these whoppers.
 
Re: One problem

Tim47SIP said:
This is over two to three years old. Althought the info in it is correct, the news is old. I believe it started sometime in 99 to be released in 00. Anyway, I agree with the fact this woman is a piece of Sh$t. People like her, need to be given the same treatment. I personally love to piss on a JF urinal sticker. Makes for great conversation. My heart and payers go out to all fallen soldiers as well as POW's.:(

414 - You sir are mistaken. It did happen. This specific incident was briefed (by DOD) to a group that I was associated with (mil) many years ago. She is a work of art!

still sure I am mistaken? I was told about this also from someone in the military, but that does not automatically make it right either.

I mean if just because someone in the military says it, does not neccesarily mean it should be taken completely as fact. After all I was told by two people in military that john denver was a marine sniper.

I have enormous respect for those in the military. But that does not mean I will accept any urban legend or chain letter dealing with military, without checking.
 
I'm a member of the Society of Wild Weasels , which includes many Viet Nam combat vets and former POWs.

Our leadership has looked into this claim and determined that it is false. As others have said, Hanoi Jane committed many acts of treason, but this isn't one of them.

By propagating this false story, one inadvertently discredits the many true stories of her evil activities during the SEA war.


Disclaimer: I wasn't there, I'm going on the direct word of people who were.
 
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Bad show here fellas. Not one person on this thread has come forward as a former resident of the "Hilton" and can confirm or deny what I had posted earlier. I have my sources and others have theirs. And if the message I posted earlier is truly laden with embellishments, how about some true stories of Hanoi Jane and her traitorous deeds. BTW... I meant no disrespect whatsoever by posting the contents of my original message. I am merely trying to express my thanks to a monumental sacrifice given up by a previous generation. Anyone who disagrees with me feel free to burn in H-E- double hockey sticks.

Have a nice day,
Skyking
 
Jerry Driscoll is AF. He was a Col. and the Commanding Officer of the AFROTC unit when I was in NROTC in college.
 
skyking1976, by repeating that story you give aid and comfort to Hanio Jane.
 
I give aid and comfort to Jane Fonda... Listen to yourself JimnTexas and try actually reading my posts. I truly feel sorry for you, my friend. Maybe you are just confused or don't understand what I have written before, but I hope that you can truly see my purpose in making this post.

This is supposed to be a tribute to US servicemen and POW's in the SEA conflict. I did not post for the purpose of disputing statements or flaming my post. If you would like to continue the flaming I would be happy to post something about PFT or scope clauses. You and others like you turn words of admiration and respect into a petty debate about what REALLY happened and who-knows-who.

If I am wrong and I am definetely not above admitting that I am, I apologize for any disinformation that I may have inadvertently conveyed. Once again, I ask for some real stories about POW's in SEA. I am here to honor, not discrace. Instead of debating this further how about sharing some pride. This post has already gotten way out of hand and I apologize on behalf of all the mis-informed.

Skyking
:confused:
 
Skyking, you repeated an internet legend about Jane Fonda. Several of us tried to explain to you that by repeating this false story, you allow Fonda to say "see, this is a typical lie about me." Instead of gracefully admitting that you made an honest mistake, you reply with childish insults.

Skyking, you ask me to read your posts. Here is what I read:

"My advice to you, sonny, is keep your f'in mouth shut "

"Anyone who disagrees with me feel free to burn in H-E- double hockey sticks."

"This is supposed to be a tribute to US servicemen and POW's in the SEA conflict."

"You and others like you turn words of admiration and respect into a petty debate about what REALLY happened and who-knows-who."

Do you see the inherent contradiction in these sentences?

"What really happened" is very important. Mixing in a fabrication, however well intentioned it might be, serves only to discredit the people you are attempting to honor.

I haven nothing else to add to this topic.

Jim Howard, Major, USAF (ret)
 

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