If DAL pilots take cut - how it compares.

[pilotyip]

SWA F/O what is a 5 star senior member?

 

[johnsonrod]

its not the pay cut that bothers me. Honestly, I would accept the companies pay proposal and move on. Its the other things that I object too and will strike over. First and foremost for me scope.

So true. I am worried about the scope issue. I don't want to stay in the regionals anymore. I would rather get hired by a major and fly a bigger aircraft there and have the potential to actually make more money. The regional wages are all in a death spiral after Skywest agreed to one set rate through 99 seats (ridiculous) and Jet Blue set the low wage bar for 100 seaters. Let's keep the bigger aircraft at the mainline level so that I (and most other regional pilots who actually want to leave) can make more money flying larger aircraft elsewhere. So many of my fellow regional pilots just don't understand that point...

You have to admit it, you simply can't earn a "good" living at the regional level anymore - you have to move on and I am planning to do that someday...

 

[SkyWstman]

johnsonrod, I truly hope you are able to move on to the majors someday. I make an excellent living at the regional level. Without working overtime I made 98000 last year at Skywest. I work three days a week and those are locals. My wife is able to stay home with the kids.

I also used to want to work for the majors. As time went on and our flights got longer my arse started getting sore after about 2 hours. I realized that I didn't want to sit for 5 or 6 hours at a wack and be gone 3 to 4 nights a week.

I watched several of my friends go to the majors before 911. They've been out of work for 4 years or so doing odd jobs. They were making around 65000
before they left. 4 years times 65000 takes a long time to make up at the bottom of a major seniority list. I know of one who came back and started at the bottom. He was senior to me.

My point is that you can make a decent living at the regional level. It depends on who you work for, what your seniority is and what the total benefit package looks like.

 

[accinelli]

Legit query, not flame.

Obviously this is starting to get real.

The question is a lot of people would like to know in the event that the pilots were to accept the current offer by DAL mgt - how would it compare to the other pilots of passenger narrow/widebody aircraft in the U.S.?

Respectfully,

fareview

Would be very close to the NWA pay rates. Now watch the DAL pilots on the board say "strike strike strike strike" and then pass the TA and accept the rates.

 

[johnsonrod]

johnsonrod, I truly hope you are able to move on to the majors someday. I make an excellent living at the regional level. Without working overtime I made 98000 last year at Skywest. I work three days a week and those are locals. My wife is able to stay home with the kids.

I also used to want to work for the majors. As time went on and our flights got longer my arse started getting sore after about 2 hours. I realized that I didn't want to sit for 5 or 6 hours at a wack and be gone 3 to 4 nights a week.

I watched several of my friends go to the majors before 911. They've been out of work for 4 years or so doing odd jobs. They were making around 65000
before they left. 4 years times 65000 takes a long time to make up at the bottom of a major seniority list. I know of one who came back and started at the bottom. He was senior to me.

My point is that you can make a decent living at the regional level. It depends on who you work for, what your seniority is and what the total benefit package looks like.

Appreciate your perspective. However, by far the vast majority of regional pilots don't plan to make careers at their regionals. They know that regional wages continue to decline: Skywest (no disrespect intended), Mesa and Jet Blue's E190 rates have continued to put major pressure on regional wages. That's a fact - I have seen tremendous pressure to cut wages/benefits at my regional and it really upsets me. I work harder and yet I seem to be paid and respected less and less. Perhaps your situation is better for you - but I am sure you would not appreciate being paid 50 seat wages for flying a CR9. That would not be fair - but it may be acceptable to you. It is most likely not acceptable to the vast majority of your peers out there...

If I do move on from a regional, I want the potential to make more money. I want to fly larger aircraft to more interesting destinations. I do not, however, want to fly larger aircraft for not much more money (ie an E190 for E170 or CR7 rates). That would be a step backwards. If scope is altered at DAL or CAL or American, etc. and the regionals fly more larger aircraft (like the E190 or CR9), then fewer mid-range aircraft like the 737 and A319 will be required. Or, those aircraft will require lower wages than those provided today. More mainline pilots could even be furloughed if larger equipment is retired to make room for E170s/190s flown by low-cost regionals - adding to the wait to be hired at a major. I have not worked this hard to fly 100 seaters for 50 seater wages.

I just don't understand why most regional pilots don't get that point. Why bring the bigger aircraft wages DOWN to the regional level? Shouldn't you get off your lazy a$$ and apply to the majors/LCCs where you have the potential to make more money and fly larger equipment? If you want to fly CR2/7/9s for the same wages or even lower wages, then maybe you will be happy. I don't want to see my wages erode any more than they have to. If you are happy flying a CRJ/ERJ for the rest of your life, then stay happy and don't shatter other people's dreams of moving up and making a better living. It's that simple.

 

[densoo]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy/delta-200502248.htm

This webpage has the current wages at the 14% "temporary" cut in December. If the leaked word is true, that wages didn't change, then this is your answer. There are a lot of other things to consider. United has a 9% B-Plan, American 11%, so just add that to the scales right off to get a closer comparison. Northwest's is only 5%. Right now Delta's B-Plan is a whopping 20%. Take the $100 per hour and just make it $120. The big divergence is going to be with medical, work rules, and other compensation, which is harder to compare. One airline may have $200 per month to buy into their health plan with 20% copays, while another is $50 per month with $12 copays.

 

[Alchemy]

Well said johnsonrod, well said.

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on the case), it's pretty irreleveant what us "regional pilots" want on this issue, since scope is mainline's to negotiate.

Although I seem to recall Comair refusing a staple at Delta back in the late 90's. We'll probably never see a mainline/rj merger, especially if we have lifers who disdain mainline on our regional MEC's. In the meantime, might as well hope that mainline holds tight on scope.

 

[propjob27]

Without working overtime I made 98000 last year at Skywest. I work three days a week and those are locals. My wife is able to stay home with the kids.

I was at SkyWest four years before I quit, and spent the last 9 months as an RJ Captain. I believe my pay was 61.41/hr. I was on track to make around 60-65k for that year, had I not quit. I am an absolute minimum-fly type guy. I got reserve guarantee, and not one cent more.

I find it pretty tough to believe ANYONE at SkyWest makes 98,000 w/o working in the training department and at the same time whoring out the remainder of his/her days off.

Year 18 (EIGHTEEN) captain pay is about 93/hr. If you had 85 credit hours per month for all 12 months, you'd make around 99K.

Have you been at SkyWest 18 years?

 

[Vastly Underemp]

Alchemy, as you so eloquently stated, scope is mainline's to negotiate. Likewise, it is mainline's to purchase. If they wanted to, any mainline could purchase/major-stockholder-control any regional affiliate and undergo a "relocation of assets." The ONLY thing keeping 100 seaters from regionals is scope. A regional MEC is a wonderful tool for solving grievences and the like, but they (ALPA) are powerless on the main stage.