Ice at the tops of clouds

[booo]

Serious answer.......and just a basic answer:Adiabatic lapse rate. As you climb, it gets colder. When you reach the base of the clouds temperature/dew point is reached and the cloud begins but is still not cold enough to cause icing. Above the clouds it's too cold to support moisture; it drops the ice crystals into the cloud into warmer air and becomes liquid again. The tops of the clouds are the coldest and make ice. Ding Ding Ding-ICE.

Sorry but just another reason to be concerned about the proper training of our new generation of pilots. You're obviously in a high performance aircraft without the proper background.

And I am concerned for the education of all the previous posters.

 

[runwayjockey]

Serious answer.......and just a basic answer:Adiabatic lapse rate. As you climb, it gets colder. When you reach the base of the clouds temperature/dew point is reached and the cloud begins but is still not cold enough to cause icing. Above the clouds it's too cold to support moisture; it drops the ice crystals into the cloud into warmer air and becomes liquid again. The tops of the clouds are the coldest and make ice. Ding Ding Ding-ICE.

Sorry but just another reason to be concerned about the proper training of our new generation of pilots. You're obviously in a high performance aircraft without the proper background.

And I am concerned for the education of all the previous posters.

Someone forgot to drink their prune juice!

 

[Simon Says]

Serious answer.......and just a basic answer:Adiabatic lapse rate. As you climb, it gets colder. When you reach the base of the clouds temperature/dew point is reached and the cloud begins but is still not cold enough to cause icing. Above the clouds it's too cold to support moisture; it drops the ice crystals into the cloud into warmer air and becomes liquid again. The tops of the clouds are the coldest and make ice. Ding Ding Ding-ICE.

Sorry but just another reason to be concerned about the proper training of our new generation of pilots. You're obviously in a high performance aircraft without the proper background.

And I am concerned for the education of all the previous posters.

You're kidding right?

You are right that I am in a high performance aircraft and actually know quite a bit about weather. I have a background in meterology and an extensive background in aerodynamics and engineering. I have been with my airline (that is considered a regional) for 14 years now.

Your answer is a possible solution as to why there is ice in clouds. My question is entirely different sir. Let me explain. And mind you no one has come up with a plausible solution.

My question is you could be flying through stratus clouds, temp below freezing...check that. Freezing is not the proper term. 0 C is actually the melting point of water. Freezing is a variable tempurature. So lets just say the temp is -3 C through out the climb. No ice accumulation in the clouds, but as soon as you reach the top and the last few seconds in the clouds I will get a trace of icing with the ice light coming on.

That is my question...Why is it that you are far more likely to accumulate ice at the very top of the clouds.

I am not a new generation. I am happily stuck at a regional. My time to pass on to a major has come and gone simply because I making enough money to support my lifestyle, I am too old, and my quality of life is much too good to move onto greener pastures. If you are at a major, good for you and may you lead a life a happiness as much as mine.

 

[dillfer]

Serious answer.......and just a basic answer:Adiabatic lapse rate. As you climb, it gets colder. When you reach the base of the clouds temperature/dew point is reached and the cloud begins but is still not cold enough to cause icing. Above the clouds it's too cold to support moisture; it drops the ice crystals into the cloud into warmer air and becomes liquid again. The tops of the clouds are the coldest and make ice. Ding Ding Ding-ICE.

Are you saying that the base of the clouds are always above freezing? And that the tops are always at freezing or below? Pretty sure that that's not what you're trying to say. Also I've picked up ice in clouds at 25,000 ft and -35C, supposedly too cold for water to even exist. Pretty bad ice too. Icing is still a lot of theory in a lot of respects in my opinion, especially when you're talking about different wings. Of course that was in S.E. Alaska where everything that you may or may not know changes.

 

[Daytonaflyer]

Let me take a whack at this.

As you climb through the clouds, molecules of water adhere to the skin of the aircraft. When reaching the top of the clouds, the sunlight begins to shine through and heats the surrounding air molecules slightly. Heating the molecules slightly causes them to expand, the resulting expansion causes the temperature to drop, and the water in the air freezes in the form of ice on the cold skin of the aircraft at a higher rate.

That's my two cents.

 

[knightflyer]

Tops usually have the highest moisture content.

That's what she said>>>HuH HuH HuH...

 

[Simon Says]

Let me take a whack at this.

As you climb through the clouds, molecules of water adhere to the skin of the aircraft. When reaching the top of the clouds, the sunlight begins to shine through and heats the surrounding air molecules slightly. Heating the molecules slightly causes them to expand, the resulting expansion causes the temperature to drop, and the water in the air freezes in the form of ice on the cold skin of the aircraft at a higher rate.

That's my two cents.

I think you and the other guy are on to something that talked about the sun doing something with the ice crystals or super cooled water. I cannot remeber or not if this happens during the night, but I am going to start paying attention to temp, time of day, and cloud type as to why the trace of ice at the very tops.

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[booo]

You're kidding right?

You are right that I am in a high performance aircraft and actually know quite a bit about weather. I have a background in meterology and an extensive background in aerodynamics and engineering. I have been with my airline (that is considered a regional) for 14 years now.

Your answer is a possible solution as to why there is ice in clouds. My question is entirely different sir. Let me explain. And mind you no one has come up with a plausible solution.

My question is you could be flying through stratus clouds, temp below freezing...check that. Freezing is not the proper term. 0 C is actually the melting point of water. Freezing is a variable tempurature. So lets just say the temp is -3 C through out the climb. No ice accumulation in the clouds, but as soon as you reach the top and the last few seconds in the clouds I will get a trace of icing with the ice light coming on.

That is my question...Why is it that you are far more likely to accumulate ice at the very top of the clouds.

I am not a new generation. I am happily stuck at a regional. My time to pass on to a major has come and gone simply because I making enough money to support my lifestyle, I am too old, and my quality of life is much too good to move onto greener pastures. If you are at a major, good for you and may you lead a life a happiness as much as mine.

Well, Mr Real Man of Genius, with "a background in meterology (sic) and an extensive background in aerodynamics and engineering".Since you rejected my first *basic* explanation, THAT IT GETS COLDER AS YOU CLIMB ('That is my question...Why is it that you are far more likely to accumulate ice at the very top of the clouds'.). Let me advance your knowledge 2000 hours and let you ponder this:

Why do you get ice with turbulence, no ice with no turbulence (well, maybe severe clear ice)?

And why did you post this in the Majors forum when you admit that you're just a regional pilot?

 

[Simon Says]

Well, Mr Real Man of Genius, with "a background in meterology (sic) and an extensive background in aerodynamics and engineering".Since you rejected my first *basic* explanation, THAT IT GETS COLDER AS YOU CLIMB ('That is my question...Why is it that you are far more likely to accumulate ice at the very top of the clouds'.). Let me advance your knowledge 2000 hours and let you ponder this:

Why do you get ice with turbulence, no ice with no turbulence (well, maybe severe clear ice)?

And why did you post this in the Majors forum when you admit that you're just a regional pilot?

OK booo.

I came off as a prick towards you because of your prickish last paragraph. Just because I work at a regional does not make me unqualified to fly a high performance aircraft.

I am not going to go tit for tat with you on who has more knowledge of meterological questions. I just want to simply know why ice accumulation is far more prevalent at the very tops of clouds. Thats it, just be cool and if you know or have an oppinion I would like to know. I can do without your snide comment on qualifications.

As far as posting on the major forums, I just thought this would be a little more mature forum in answering a question. I guess not. Next time I will post it on the General Aviation section. The private pilots are much more proffessional than some of the folks here.

 

[skywav8r]

That 'ding' is coming from the "top of cloud" detector, not the ice detector.....duh!!!!!
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