IBT Lawsuit

[993_Pilot]

...WOW two paycheck a from same company..is that the purpose of the VSP??? If any pilot here Flex or OPT does not have a problem with that including the Brain Dead Label there is something seriously wrong.

If that is true, the judge and/or arbitrator will see right through that charade.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

WOW two paycheck a from same company..is that the purpose of the VSP??? If any pilot here Flex or OPT does not have a problem with that including the Brain Dead Label there is something seriously wrong.

Yes, something is seriously wrong! It amazes me that there are pilots that will never see Kenn for what he really is. Kenn's mental disorder is no secret to those who have seen him in action for all of these years. He enjoys creating conflict, then he comes to the rescue with his latest scheme. The narcissist needs these minions to reinforce his delusional behavior.

 

[exagony]

Judge ruled in Unions favor in a rather strongly worded decision. Maybe the naysayers will take the time to read the ruling. What will warlord's spin be this week after another ruling goes against the company.

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

Kenn Ricci can lick my b@lls.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Kenn Ricci can lick my b@lls.

If you read the court decision, it appears the judge agrees with you.

He did not give one single shred of credence or approval to any company argument or action. This was a severe admonition of their behavior, attitude and legal theory. It's embarrassing.

I almost cringe thinking about how ultimtly defeated management must feel today. Almost.

Too bad the union didn't seek any relief on Red Label pay issues as possible statuss quo or laboratory violations in their counter claim. It would appear based on the judges attitudes on seniority as a general rule, they would have won on that issue as well.

But ********************, if we actually expected "our" union to give a flying ******************** about the abundance of issues associated with Red Label we should obviously have our heads examined. Instead they continue to stick their heads in the sand, remain silent and let an IGM run the VUH like it is his personal editorial page with not a single response from any PLC member.

Remind me again, who elected these impotent fools? Oh yeh, now I remember. No one. As a Flexjet pilot, I have to start believing the conspiracy theories they were selected more for their weakness and exploitability than their competence and strength.

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

If you read the court decision, it appears the judge agrees with you.

He did not give one single shred of credence or approval to any company argument or action. This was a severe admonition of their behavior, attitude and legal theory. It's embarrassing.

I almost cringe thinking about how ultimtly defeated management must feel today. Almost.

Too bad the union didn't seek any relief on Red Label pay issues as possible statuss quo or laboratory violations in their counter claim. It would appear based on the judges attitudes on seniority as a general rule, they would have won on that issue as well.

But ********************, if we actually expected "our" union to give a flying ******************** about the abundance of issues associated with Red Label we should obviously have our heads examined. Instead they continue to stick their heads in the sand, remain silent and let an IGM run the VUH like it is his personal editorial page with not a single response from any PLC member.

Remind me again, who elected these impotent fools? Oh yeh, now I remember. No one. As a Flexjet pilot, I have to start believing the conspiracy theories they were selected more for their weakness and exploitability than their competence and strength.

If you are such a tough guy and can do it better, why don't you organize your fellow Flex Jetters and join in the battle for the common good?

Oh yah. That's right. It's because y'all are a bunch of pu$$ies!

 

[Jafjw]

If you are such a tough guy and can do it better, why don't you organize your fellow Flex Jetters and join in the battle for the common good?

Oh yah. That's right. It's because y'all are a bunch of pu$$ies!

Fuc% you. Let me guess you are one of the illustrious lackluster clusterfuc% that passes for leadership around Options. Call me a pu$$y all you want but at least I'm a smart pu$$y. I'm not throwing away my career or reputation to join that trainwreck.

Believe me when the time comes when representation can be voted on I'll put my name in the hat. Until then I just as soon not be associated with the disappointment and failure we've had since the election.

 

[993_Pilot]

So will management now furlough people from both Flexjet and Options?... or will they magically find a way to keep all the Flexjet pilots and only furlough at Options? They will have to do it via reverse seniority at Options due to the CBA, but would they at Flexjet? Will the transfer pilots somehow get magically protected?

I personally believe that this was never about anything more than stalling for management, but now, according to Judge Gwin, the clock has been ticking since February. Hopefully, our management will get off their collective A$$es and negotiate. If/When they do, I would bet that they will want to "Un-Fence" the Globals & G450's A.S.A.P. in order to protect the FOK transfers and allow them to keep their Options seniority numbers. Anyone want to take that bet? I am sure the union is prepared for that, and I sure hope they get a worthy concession from management, if they agree to it.

Either way, it is still going to be a long time before the fat lady sings, and regardless of what management does that may be viewed as unfavorable to any portion of the pilot group, one thing is for certain... They will continue to spin it all and blame anything negative on the union, as always. Let's not forget that the clock is ticking down for the chance to decertify too, and that is their ultimate goal.

 

[993_Pilot]

Fuc% you. Let me guess you are one of the illustrious lackluster clusterfuc% that passes for leadership around Options. Call me a pu$$y all you want but at least I'm a smart pu$$y. I'm not throwing away my career or reputation to join that trainwreck.

Believe me when the time comes when representation can be voted on I'll put my name in the hat. Until then I just as soon not be associated with the disappointment and failure we've had since the election.

Interesting. Mister 1 post "Jafjw" replies to a comment that "Bill_Lumbergh" directed at "Imissmypilot", as if it was directed at him/her. Did you forget what user name/avatar you were longed in with Jafjw?

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

Fuc% you. Let me guess you are one of the illustrious lackluster clusterfuc% that passes for leadership around Options. Call me a pu$$y all you want but at least I'm a smart pu$$y. I'm not throwing away my career or reputation to join that trainwreck.

Believe me when the time comes when representation can be voted on I'll put my name in the hat. Until then I just as soon not be associated with the disappointment and failure we've had since the election.

No. Just a line pilot out doing my job just like you. Only when I do mine, I follow the rules regardless of what our masters want us to do. I don't cower in the corner with my Binky and wait for my diapie to be changed (that was just soiled because I'm so scared of being lumped in with the "inferior" pilots). I can't wait until you are my First Officer.

(Do you miss your other screen name, yet?)

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

Interesting. Mister 1 post "Jafjw" replies to a comment that "Bill_Lumbergh" directed at "Imissmypilot", as if it was directed at him/her. Did you forget what user name/avatar you were longed in with Jafjw?

Dude. That's funny!

 

[Jafjw]

Nope just thought the comment I was responding to was directed at FJ pilots who maybe aren't completely sold on the union yet. I didn't realize the comment was directed at just one pilot. Sorry.

Flexjet pilots are getting tired of the constant complaint from those pilots in particular who brought this union to us but continue to complain about their workload. There is a strong resentment from supporters and non supporters alike we are represented by leadership we didn't vote on and apparently have no say in the process. From a Flexjet perspective, so far everything done is being done with only Options in mind.

I joined here specifically so I could ask some questions that neither side will appreciate.

Here they are:

1.) What will happen to all VSP recipients that would not qualify now based on a fleet/seniority standard? On the one hand, it would suck to be depending on something and have it disappear into thin air. On the other hand, it serves them right for trusting a management team that not only refused to act in their best interests by following the legally defined process, but additionally a management team that brought the lawsuit that will result in their possible financial loss.

2.) Union support (as naturally indicated by a properly negotiated CBA) might have resulted in significantly higher participation, thus nullifying the need for a furlough. Accordingly, will the union seek additional relief for the furloughs who have been unquestionably harmed as a result of management's failure to act legally reasonably and responsibly?

3.) I figure management had a number in their head of X number of Options pilots on the street "no matter what" to furlough, since it was a political furlough according to the union. Obviously, it was the perception of failure they were seeking to pin on the union, not financial relief. I imagine they keep going up through the list of transfers (who would never actually be out of a job) and current Options pilots until they hit that number. If the VSP is reopened to participation and there are additional takers, will the company be forced to bring back pilots on a one to one basis?

4.) At what point will transfers have to notify the union of what their SLI number choice will be?

5.) I do not see in the court document a guarantee the 9 month clock starts in February. Is that an assumption or another future litigation issue?

6.) From one of the posts in this forum. why didn't the union seek relief of the Red Label pay disparity if it was a union busting tactic? What is the stance of the Union on the Red Label issue. Obviously it is a delicate issue and not all Red Label pilots are anti union. However, I do find the lack of clarity a little uncomfortable.

7.) Why did the company only seek relief for the transfers but not the 50 or so mid list Captains who lost out?

8.) What are the plans for the union to deal with the fence issues relating to the new European deal?

9.) What is the union plan to deal with the new Challengers that will come to Flexjet for Red Label only? Can we force the company to assign them to the regular program under fence agreements?

 

[Jafjw]

Also,

10.) When are we going to start seeing some of these advantages we were promised during the campaign, such as job protection representation during disciplinary or training issues, negotiation dates regarding the new and improved CBA etc


11.) A union representative told me thanksgiving we would have a contract signed sealed and delivered. Do we not get to vote on the JCBA? During the campaign, we were told there would be 3 phases of our new contract. Initial protection and status quo, then JCBA, then CBA. Why is it different now?

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Lots of good points, but don't expect anyone to spoon feed you. Read the Federal Judge's opinion and figure it out for yourself. If you want a say in the union, you goal is to get membership to 50%+1 and you get to elect who you want. Otherwise you really don't have much to contribute to the betterment of the joint pilot group. If you have a problem with that, you can go back and get more of mommy's milk.

 

[dime line]

#7........Go and try Kenns "Open Door Policy" , ask your question, and report back on how that went

 

[Jafjw]

Lots of good points, but don't expect anyone to spoon feed you. Read the Federal Judge's opinion and figure it out for yourself. If you want a say in the union, you goal is to get membership to 50%+1 and you get to elect who you want. Otherwise you really don't have much to contribute to the betterment of the joint pilot group. If you have a problem with that, you can go back and get more of mommy's milk.

I did read it completely which is more than one can say for you doing the same with my questions. If you had read them you would see I'm not asking anyone to spoonfeed me anything. I am asking only questions not yet answered, are being avoided or were not contained in the documents. It should be obvious I am very well versed in the process and events. You do not need to insult me.

Why do all of you union people have to be such arrogant prick$ and then question why no one wants to join up with you or be associated with such combative rudeness?

I mean what I said earlier. When the time comes for a vote I will certainly throw my hat in the ring. At this time there is a resentment pertaining to our representation not being decided upon by the pilots they represent. I do not see a need to confuse my future participation and ability to lead with an association to a regime that lacks the backing of the process we thought we were getting. Consider it a political move but the future will be outsiders who run the show and I want to set myself up for success not a brief moment in the spotlight.

I actually support the Flexjet current PLC and former POC and have no personal or particular issues with any of them. Unfortunately, all of their reputations have taken an undeserved huge hit that will be nearly impossible to recover from regarding their future in an election phase.

You Options a-holes are part of the problem because much of the resentment Flexjet pilots feel toward vocally pro union pilots has to do with our perceptions of the union people like you created and forced upon a large percentage of unwilling pilots. Your general tone is unhelpfulness and bravado if you have the question one is not falling hook line and sinker for your talking points. Right now we are slowly realizing we really should have fought harder for our own union and are not pleased being hog tied to an agenda that does not affect us. In other words, right now even it's you who doesn't care about our "joint pilot group". You care about Options. All management cares about is the transfers. When does a Flexjet pilot get some of his needs addresssed?

I did receive an email from a Flexjet leader based on my post. It's a shame. Their desire to do the right thing and reputations are overshadowed by the rhetoric you insist on perpetuating.

 

[shanes123]

The arrogant pr$cks are the Flex pilots. And that's not just a options sides view. The whole industry has come to see Flexs true colors. Netjets pilots , TMC pilots, their all on the road talking about how arrogant and stupid you all are. And your idiot talking mouth on the VUH isn't helping your cause. You POS made out better on the SLI even the FING judge said so. But again your arrogance and stupidity stand in the way of seeing any of it. Self Serving, hypocrites, A kissers. Why you think KR bought you losers instead of CA. That was no accident, he saw what idiots you where and knew it was his best shot at beating the union. Those CA guys where a stand up group of professionals. A word you clowns have no idea what it means. Where's you're precious management that KR FIRED!!!!! Way back when ( read my past posts I'm sure it's in there somewhere ) I wanted equality for everyone but you flex fools don't deserve a damn thing. The union is here to stay and the leader ship we have is the best there is. They are a moral ethical group of guys. Words you guys will never understand. If any of you guys worked for Netjets especially FW you would have been ran off the property a long time ago. That's my rant for the night. Time for a few more Vodkas. Deuces B$tches

 

[Imissmypilot]

Interesting. Mister 1 post "Jafjw" replies to a comment that "Bill_Lumbergh" directed at "Imissmypilot", as if it was directed at him/her. Did you forget what user name/avatar you were longed in with Jafjw?

While I did not disagree with his/her original post or mind being associated with the sentiments I went on to further read the implication he is a red label pilot since they are the only ones who defend the program. Therefore I request no association with a scumbag IGM.

Speaking of the new class of IGM double dippers I heard management recinded their verbal offer to allow pilots to double dip over the weekend. Is it possible they wanted to be able to deny such agreements were being quietly hashed out? Go read Yammer and judge for yourself. By the way the double dip required pilots to be at will and understand they were not covered by the employee agreement. Why does management persist in their delusion that employee agreement is valid and if it is, why would new hires or Options VSP transfers not get it too?

If Yammer claims are true why are they still vetting pilots for off the street hires? I personally know someone called within the past two weeks.

 

[ghostrider64]

Reality is....

If you aren't helping the cause, your're hurting it. There is no place for sitting on the sidelines when it comes to "Our Industry". The bar was set years ago by NJASAP, and we've experienced almost everything flops and flex are experiencing, to include integration of a non Union entity.

I suspect at this point that two attitudes prevail inside the former NJI camp. 1) they wish they'd been more "helpful and active" in the integration and negotiation process. 2) they are impressed by the gains and protections they are now afforded by being included in the union and as Union members.

So sit in the sidelines and wait, but doing so will do nothing but slow the inevitable process.

BTW where is that G4dude that once professed how bad we at the Union were? His silence is deafening.

 

[Bill_Lumbergh]

The arrogant pr$cks are the Flex pilots. And that's not just a options sides view. The whole industry has come to see Flexs true colors. Netjets pilots , TMC pilots, their all on the road talking about how arrogant and stupid you all are. And your idiot talking mouth on the VUH isn't helping your cause. You POS made out better on the SLI even the FING judge said so. But again your arrogance and stupidity stand in the way of seeing any of it. Self Serving, hypocrites, A kissers. Why you think KR bought you losers instead of CA. That was no accident, he saw what idiots you where and knew it was his best shot at beating the union. Those CA guys where a stand up group of professionals. A word you clowns have no idea what it means. Where's you're precious management that KR FIRED!!!!! Way back when ( read my past posts I'm sure it's in there somewhere ) I wanted equality for everyone but you flex fools don't deserve a damn thing. The union is here to stay and the leader ship we have is the best there is. They are a moral ethical group of guys. Words you guys will never understand. If any of you guys worked for Netjets especially FW you would have been ran off the property a long time ago. That's my rant for the night. Time for a few more Vodkas. Deuces B$tches

Word, my brutha