I was right again

[rajflyboy]

It took you 12 paragraphs to say absolutely nothing

The golden goose would would be proud of you. He could babble very well but not much of anything important coming from his mouth.

Realityman. This wasn’t your fault. 75% voted yes and believed what they were told (well a few of those 75% were just done fighting). I don’t blame the negotiators. They weren’t the ones pushing this hard like a few others were.

We could have gotten a standard 10 hour day rather than a 12 hour day. Split the money any way you want it (overtime or base pay). I still think most days could be 10 hour days. Heck we have 1.5 hour shows now. That’s a half hour wasted right there that would not have been overtime (ie.. no cost involved).

It is what it is. Nothing will change. I just hope 8 years from now the voters will think before they vote.

 

[realityman]

You think I said a whole lot of nothing? Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps i just wasn't clear.

The people who are truly unhappy with the CBA don't understand the dynamics.

Length of duty day is only one issue. My point is, it's all interconnected. We can't get everything we want because the cost of one section must be taken out of another. We can't get airline schedules without airline crewing. Airline crewing would be a MASSIVE cost increase to the company. If we did that, where is the money for the raises we want going to come from?

The haters of the CBA say "Well, just charge the clients more. They're rich, they'll pay it. ".
Uh huh.

To that, I would say, if it's so easy to raise prices, why haven't they done so already? Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, this management team does is meant to squeeze every last dime out of this place. So if it was so easy to raise prices 5% or 10% or whatever because the rich will just pay it, why haven't they done so already? I can't imagine the EMT or BH saying "We could easily make X% more by raising prices, but nah, we're not going to do it!".

Clearly, there are limits. That's not what I want to hear, but it's reality. Now, could they pay us more NOW? Yeah, I think so. And, they may HAVE to do so at some point if we hope to attract enough qualified pilots.

But no, i don't believe there's enough money there, as well as pricing elasticity, to get us all the improvements everyone is complaining about and wants to have.

 

[rajflyboy]

You think I said a whole lot of nothing? Sorry you feel that way. Perhaps i just wasn't clear.

The people who are truly unhappy with the CBA don't understand the dynamics.

Length of duty day is only one issue. My point is, it's all interconnected. We can't get everything we want because the cost of one section must be taken out of another. We can't get airline schedules without airline crewing. Airline crewing would be a MASSIVE cost increase to the company. If we did that, where is the money for the raises we want going to come from?

The haters of the CBA say "Well, just charge the clients more. They're rich, they'll pay it. ".
Uh huh.

To that, I would say, if it's so easy to raise prices, why haven't they done so already? Everything, and I do mean EVERYTHING, this management team does is meant to squeeze every last dime out of this place. So if it was so easy to raise prices 5% or 10% or whatever because the rich will just pay it, why haven't they done so already? I can't imagine the EMT or BH saying "We could easily make X% more by raising prices, but nah, we're not going to do it!".

Clearly, there are limits. That's not what I want to hear, but it's reality. Now, could they pay us more NOW? Yeah, I think so. And, they may HAVE to do so at some point if we hope to attract enough qualified pilots.

But no, i don't believe there's enough money there, as well as pricing elasticity, to get us all the improvements everyone is complaining about and wants to have.

I agree with you about costs and yes we do not want to affectively price ourselves out of business but I also mentioned different ways to come up with the same cost of a contract. For example: Less pay but more overtime. Most of us would prefer the goal being a 10 hour day and not a 12 hour day. Now you can already take 30 minutes out of your equation because the show time is normally 1:30 minutes now. So now we are down to squabbling about 1.5 hours per day. I will take the OT over base pay for this.

 

[rajflyboy]

CBA is extremely important because CMH will always be very very very difficult to deal with

This is why I hope for a miracle some day and the possibility the company will move the hell out of Ohio. A true miracle is needed. We need new blood and fresh ideas.

 

[Hogprint]

CBA is extremely important because CMH will always be very very very difficult to deal with

This is why I hope for a miracle some day and the possibility the company will move the hell out of Ohio. A true miracle is needed. We need new blood and fresh ideas.

Agreed, but let’s not hold our breath...

The Great Santulli once threatened to move the operation when CMH wouldn’t play ball and move an antenna for the expanded campus.

RDU was in the running and brought the White Knight of Belmar down for some wining and dining. They gave him a very good offer if I remember correctly, not to mention the 4:1 exchange in the talent pool drawing from Wake Forest, Duke, NCSU and UNC from OSU.

Unfortunately for them and by extension, us, the Great One was only using them for leverage against CMH. They caved like a cheap card table and here we are. Stuck in the land of zealots and pilot haters.

That culture is ingrained in that crowd there. It’s never going to change unless the Welcome to Ohio sign is in the rearview mirror.

 

[rajflyboy]

That mess was just a tax ploy to get money from Ohio/CMH

The rest of us are stuck with the “The OSU” crowd for a very long time

RDU would have given this company options for much higher talent levels with employees

 

[AirBear8]

Can anyone name a single pilot group that is happy with their CBA and Management team?

NetJets will only give their pilots a better QOL when they have to because attrition and hiring have become bad enough. My personal pet peeve was circadian rhythm flips. The older I got the less change I could tolerate. As a night owl going from a 0900 show to an 0500 show would do me in. But on late trips I could fly until 0400-0500. At RGS I told my CP that I was fine finishing a 14 hour day at 0400, but was NOT fine starting a 14 hour day at 0400. I almost never flew a full duty period after an early show unless I'd had several days to adjust.

I'm on Med LOA and to tell you the truth I really don't care to return, even if I had the option to. And that's 100% because of scheduling. I liked the jet I flew, I liked the mission, seeing a new airport almost every tour, some really cool pax, etc. If I wanted to I could make over $200K/yr, in fact I did that on the CC76 and with 20/20 hindsight that's what expedited my going on MLOA.

I don't pretend to know how hard it'd be to implement something like an AM/PM schedule preference but I am certain it'd reduce the fatigue calls.

 

[rajflyboy]

Can anyone name a single pilot group that is happy with their CBA and Management team?

NetJets will only give their pilots a better QOL when they have to because attrition and hiring have become bad enough. My personal pet peeve was circadian rhythm flips. The older I got the less change I could tolerate. As a night owl going from a 0900 show to an 0500 show would do me in. But on late trips I could fly until 0400-0500. At RGS I told my CP that I was fine finishing a 14 hour day at 0400, but was NOT fine starting a 14 hour day at 0400. I almost never flew a full duty period after an early show unless I'd had several days to adjust.

I'm on Med LOA and to tell you the truth I really don't care to return, even if I had the option to. And that's 100% because of scheduling. I liked the jet I flew, I liked the mission, seeing a new airport almost every tour, some really cool pax, etc. If I wanted to I could make over $200K/yr, in fact I did that on the CC76 and with 20/20 hindsight that's what expedited my going on MLOA.

I don't pretend to know how hard it'd be to implement something like an AM/PM schedule preference but I am certain it'd reduce the fatigue calls.

I think most approved of the 2005 CBA

2015 had a complete lack of QOL minus the pilots who could hold the cc52

A big part of the problem is the hand holding that we see day in and day out. They need to trust the crews more often. Crews are on the front lines and see exactly what is happening. Pilots also need to talk directly with scheduling. No middle person.

 

[AirBear8]

I was standing at the FBO counter somewhere in West Texas. I had already asked the staff what time they opened in the morning, they said 0700. Next day brief gave us an 0600 show with a few hours before we needed to leave. Called the FM and said I was standing at the counter and FBO didn't open until 7. He said, but the computer says they open at 6 so that must be right!

I think most approved of the 2005 CBA

2015 had a complete lack of QOL minus the pilots who could hold the cc52

A big part of the problem is the hand holding that we see day in and day out. They need to trust the crews more often. Crews are on the front lines and see exactly what is happening. Pilots also need to talk directly with scheduling. No middle person.

 

[rajflyboy]

I was standing at the FBO counter somewhere in West Texas. I had already asked the staff what time they opened in the morning, they said 0700. Next day brief gave us an 0600 show with a few hours before we needed to leave. Called the FM and said I was standing at the counter and FBO didn't open until 7. He said, but the computer says they open at 6 so that must be right!

treating people like kids