I need some advice.

[Scooter_San]

Okay, I need some advice from those of you that are older and wiser. I work for a flight dept. that requires new hires to sign a training contract. The contract is for two full initials however we are not allowed to type until we return for our recurrent a year later. We just got a new chief pilot and we all hoped this policy would change for the better. Unfortunately, the new guy is an even bigger believer in training contracts and now we are not allowed to type until a captain slot becomes open. This could take 6 months or 6 years depending on turnover or retirements.(not a bright prospect in a flight dept. with 7 pilots.) I really would like to see what everyones take is on this.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Okay, I need some advice from those of you that are older and wiser. I work for a flight dept. that requires new hires to sign a training contract. The contract is for two full initials however we are not allowed to type until we return for our recurrent a year later. We just got a new chief pilot and we all hoped this policy would change for the better. Unfortunately, the new guy is an even bigger believer in training contracts and now we are not allowed to type until a captain slot becomes open. This could take 6 months or 6 years depending on turnover or retirements.(not a bright prospect in a flight dept. with 7 pilots.) I really would like to see what everyones take is on this.

Is it a good job? If so, who cares?

But, Im guessing maybe its not, as not too many decent places have to do this. Why such absurd rules? are they afraid people will leave? why is everyone running away? - thats what they should address..anyhow....

One can wait 6 months or a year, but certainly not 6 years..thats very career damaging. Maybe explain this to your new wonderful Chief?

A decent manager will try hard to meet your goals as to keep you challenged and satisfied. If they value you and your hard work they may find a way to waive this rule and get you going faster...thus keep you around and happy..approach it with a positive attitude, you may become the exception.

if not, you know what to do -- hit the road! you cant wait 6 years to get typed for christ sakes.

 

[Scooter_San]

Gulfstream 200, Thanks for the advice. I agree with what you said. The new chief swears that most flight depts. require training contracts but my limited experience seems to show that it is only the bad ones that do.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Gulfstream 200, Thanks for the advice. I agree with what you said. The new chief swears that most flight depts. require training contracts but my limited experience seems to show that it is only the bad ones that do.

I have never worked for one that did...and really cant think of any that do.

I have worked at mom and pop FBO/charter places, large management companies, and a larger Pt91 flt department. No contracts.

then again, maybe none of them wanted to keep me.

 

[Scooter_San]

Well, This place has more than its' fair share of problems. (no SOPs, no standardization, backstabbing grumpy old pilots.) I was basically recruited to help a friend make some positive changes and build a better flight dept. Well that friend was axed and now this new guy was brought in from the outside. He has some good ideas about improving ops. safety, and some morale issues but his attitude toward training contracts and pilots is a bit worrisome.

 

[Blackjet]

I got a little lost. Sorry. Are you having to sign a training contract when you go to recurrent, or just whenever you get typed? For a lower time guy, I can see not wanting to type him until he gets some experience under his belt, but why are all the pilots not typed before they set foot in the aircraft? The CP seems to be holding that type over the other pilot's heads like it some great reward or favor he is doing for you. If that's the case, there is usually some deep rooted issue of his own that he has. It's silly. Maybe I am not reading that correctly. Fill me in.

 

[Scooter_San]

I got a little lost. Sorry. Are you having to sign a training contract when you go to recurrent, or just whenever you get typed? For a lower time guy, I can see not wanting to type him until he gets some experience under his belt, but why are all the pilots not typed before they set foot in the aircraft? The CP seems to be holding that type over the other pilot's heads like it some great reward or favor he is doing for you. If that's the case, there is usually some deep rooted issue of his own that he has. It's silly. Maybe I am not reading that correctly. Fill me in.

Sorry for the confusion. English never was my best subject. New hires sign a 2 year 30k contract. This cost is to pay for the two initials on the C550 and C650. However, we are not allowed to type in the first year. We were allowed to type when we returned for our recurrent classes. Now the new CP has decided that we can't even do that. We can't type until a captain slot opens for that particular A/C. It's not for low time guys that may not be able to "make the grade". It is siimply a retention tool. While I am not crazy about training contracts I can understand the need for them at times. I guess the issue I have is I've got a 30K contract and now under the "new" rules I may not have any types to show for it.

 

[Blackjet]

Sorry for the confusion. English never was my best subject. New hires sign a 2 year 30k contract. This cost is to pay for the two initials on the C550 and C650. However, we are not allowed to type in the first year. We were allowed to type when we returned for our recurrent classes. Now the new CP has decided that we can't even do that. We can't type until a captain slot opens for that particular A/C. It's not for low time guys that may not be able to "make the grade". It is siimply a retention tool. While I am not crazy about training contracts I can understand the need for them at times. I guess the issue I have is I've got a 30K contract and now under the "new" rules I may not have any types to show for it.

If you are not going to get typed in a year, under no circumstance would I sign a training contract for a series of SIC Initials and recurrents. That CP is a test tube baby. Find a way to get rid of that loser. Training contract for an SIC recurrent and no type in site? How does that benefit you?

 

[Pilot_Ryan]

I think you are right when you say it's a retention tool. They don't want you to get the type at their expense and get a job somewhere else.

 

[Choppy]

Why are you having to sign a contract to the effect of 15,000 dollars for each aircraft if you are not getting typed? Those cost numbers are based on an initial type ride! Tell them you will sign a contract for two sic initials and then if they type you you can sign the additional cost. They are signing you to 30000 when they are only paying about 15000!

 

[2EASYPilot]

I agree with the previous poster, must be an attempt to retain employees. However, in our case experience in type is more important in hiring versus the type rating. In addition, I believe training contracts are lagely unenforceable.

 

[Scooter_San]

Thanks for all your input. I've never been the type of guy that bounces from one job to another. I don't believe in collecting type ratings like some bozos do. However, this new policy seems to force a guy to leave after the contract is up. You are exactly right Choppy. I went through two full PIC initials and was held back from the type ride even after the instructors requested that I be allowed to do so. They just want me as a slave I guess.

 

[maxell]

The sad thing is, if you decide to leave they will find someone else to replace you the next day! Sorry to say that, but it's the truth. My theory is the (CP) is trying to put a feather in is hat with management.

 

[PilotChapin]

Sounds like your CP is a total tool! Why? well they dont want to type you after a year to start. Especially for a corporate flight dept. That's total bull, let me ask you this. When you did your initial, did you do the full initial? Basically like the type check ride, except without the no flap landing and a couple of PIC req? If you did, then the difference in pricing for a full SIC and PIC initial is not that much. Companies that do this is b/c they know how much a piece of shiat they are and know that once their pilots are typed they are going to walk out. A good company that takes care of its pilots doesnt get to rapped up around typing their FOs. Sounds like you're getting screwed my boy. I personally hate those types of CP that will pretty much lick their bosses b*lls and or management by trying to save them money or to do the "right thing" to save a few bucks and seem sooooo "faithfull" . (like wiping struts) hehehehe

 

[PilotChapin]

Thanks for all your input. I've never been the type of guy that bounces from one job to another. I don't believe in collecting type ratings like some bozos do. However, this new policy seems to force a guy to leave after the contract is up. You are exactly right Choppy. I went through two full PIC initials and was held back from the type ride even after the instructors requested that I be allowed to do so. They just want me as a slave I guess.

I say, get your self another job then once you start your new job you go in the CP office and kick him in the nuts....

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Thanks for all your input. I've never been the type of guy that bounces from one job to another. I don't believe in collecting type ratings like some bozos do. However, this new policy seems to force a guy to leave after the contract is up. You are exactly right Choppy. I went through two full PIC initials and was held back from the type ride even after the instructors requested that I be allowed to do so. They just want me as a slave I guess.

bounce jobs and collect all the type ratings that come your way until you reach the job you need and want.

You owe nothing to anyone. Give 100%, but know at the end of the day YOU have to take care of you and yours.

thats not being a "bozo" -- its called looking out for #1.

Do it or die in aviation.

 

[Scooter_San]

bounce jobs and collect all the type ratings that come your way until you reach the job you need and want.

You owe nothing to anyone. Give 100%, but know at the end of the day YOU have to take care of you and yours.

thats not being a "bozo" -- its called looking out for #1.

Do it or die in aviation.

The more I'm around this industry the more I'm realizing that is true. Obviously the CP and company are looking out for themselves. He even told me that he was an advocate for me some of the time but he is an advocate for the company all of the time. What kind of answer is that?

 

[G100driver]

The more I'm around this industry the more I'm realizing that is true. Obviously the CP and company are looking out for themselves. He even told me that he was an advocate for me some of the time but he is an advocate for the company all of the time. What kind of answer is that?

While this is always true ... you never say it!! Sounds like leadership at it finest.:erm:

LIke G200 said, look out for youself because no one else does it nearly as well as you can.

 

[maxell]

PilotChapin is right on the money. Like I said before, it sounds like your boss is looking out for himself only...

 

[Melon]

You signed a contract stating that you would be typed at the first recurrent. A deal is a deal, the new CP can not legally come in and change it to suit his wishes. You signed it in good faith believing you would be typed. I would bring this to his attention (very delicately). If it falls on deaf ears, bail asap. They can not enforce a training contract on you that had provisions changed during the course of the term of the contract. Any lawyer worth a dam will be able to help you out of it if they tried to collect when you leave. A simple phone call from a lawyer would suffice I am sure. Best wishes and best of luck!