I need a new job!

[tiktak]

Flechas
Let me give you a little advice about instructing.
You never scream at your student or trainee. It is counterproductive and enhances negative learning experences and the value of the training session is greatly reduced.
In my experience the greates improvment in standards I have seen when you tell your student or trainee if you do not see emprovment that you will discontinue the training.
I now this is not possible in $$$ driven greedy flight schools, but if you train students on someone elses nickel you can do this.
in 16 years you can have my job.

keep the spirits up. there are a lot of 3-5k guys on the street.
hiring will pick up in 1st q 04.

 

[Flechas]

tiktak,
i have NEVER even raised my voice to any of my students, and i will never do it. the reason i put that is because someone said it in another thread, or maybe this thread. the person said that the job he had was better than being in a cessna screaming Right Rudder!

fly safe

 

[ERAU_Girl]

Ouch AirJason, that hurt.... I wont bring you the coffee, but ill get the flight attendent to do it... hows that? (I certainly didnt pay this much for my training to bring coffee...)

climb happy, nope im not the one with the pert a$$... well at least im not the one who said it in her posting... that would be happypilotgirl or whatever her name is (sorry, didnt mean to be mean... just dont remember your handle!)

well boys, ive had enough being bashed for one web-board....

 

[phantom122]

The following is a list of all the airlines that suck:

American, Delta, USAirways, United, Continental, ATA, Southwest, Jet Blue, Song, American Eagle, Comair, ACA, ASA, Continental Express, Great Lakes, Mesa airgroup, Skywest, Gulfstream, Air Wisconsin, Allegheny, PSA, and many others.

If your airline wasn't mentioned, well it sucks too. None of them pay enough to first year f/o's. Min. pay at a "regional" should be $ 50,000.00 and max pay at a major should be $ 200,000.00. Max pay for any CEO should be $400,000.00 No bonuses. No CEO is worth millions.

Now that that's settled, let's move on to something different and stop butt-bashing everyone. This is fu-king ridiculous. If you hate life and your piss poor paycheck, either strike immediately and put the big hurt on management or go to nursing school. By your second year hospitals will offer to pay for the rest of your training and you'll make $ 90,000.00 to start.

Problems solved.

 

[Flyairjason]

Guys,
I would like to send a sincere and public apology out to ERAU_girl for my hurtful and sexist comments. If nothing else, we are all in this together, and I was wrong to act like a pig. Frequently, I'm not as funny as I think I am.
Jason

 

[bogberto]

The following is a list of all the airlines that suck:

American, Delta, USAirways, United, Continental, ATA, Southwest, Jet Blue, Song, American Eagle, Comair, ACA, ASA, Continental Express, Great Lakes, Mesa airgroup, Skywest, Gulfstream, Air Wisconsin, Allegheny, PSA, and many others.

If your airline wasn't mentioned, well it sucks too. None of them pay enough to first year f/o's. Min. pay at a "regional" should be $ 50,000.00 and max pay at a major should be $ 200,000.00. Max pay for any CEO should be $400,000.00 No bonuses. No CEO is worth millions.

Now that that's settled, let's move on to something different and stop butt-bashing everyone. This is fu-king ridiculous. If you hate life and your piss poor paycheck, either strike immediately and put the big hurt on management or go to nursing school. By your second year hospitals will offer to pay for the rest of your training and you'll make $ 90,000.00 to start.

Problems solved.

Not to mention that most hospitals in CA, AZ, and NV are paying signing bonuses up to 15k.

I was thinking about printing some flyers and cramming them into seat-back pockets. Something to basically tell the pax just how little of their ticket goes to paying their flight crew. Maybe have some comparisons to Costco cashiers ($40k), golf pros, sanitary engineers, Walmart managers, and the paperboy.

But, 5 minutes after walking off the plane, they'd forget. Oh well.

 

[WhiteCloud]

well boys, ive had enough being bashed for one web-board....

Woah! Don't go yet. Some of us sexist pigs need you here to straighten us out now and then.

 

[ERAU_Girl]

All right, all right I wont go anywhere....

Bog, can I help?? I love causing mischief and mayham!! Its a great time!

 

[bogberto]

ERAU_Girly: sure you can help. I think we should all do it. It would surely be a waste of time but, what the heck?!

You PRC or DAY?

 

[ERAU_Girl]

well i certainly dont go to ohio... the appropriate city code for daytona is DAB... DAY would be dayton ohio....

Either way on with the mischief!

 

[bogberto]

well i certainly dont go to ohio... the appropriate city code for daytona is DAB... DAY would be dayton ohio....

Either way on with the mischief!

Guess that shows that it's been awhile since I graduated and that I didn't fly into DAY much when I was back East.

 

[FranktheTank]

ERAU girl, I'm all for women in the cockpit, but get in back and grab me a coke. Shut the door on the way out so the cpt. and I can make fun of you. Man, what a lame a$$.

 

[belchfire]

I personally don't think that anyone in management
should make more than the senior line CA...by limiting
the paychecks in mngmnt you would keep corporate
raiders like Icon and Lorenzo away, because they would
be prohibited from voting themselves a raise.

Airlines, like any other business, are about making money.
How the heck can you make money when so few employees
soak up so much of the payroll!!!

Which way to the bar?!?

 

[Doberman]

Run Mung, Run!

 

[Flechas]

I'm fed up

Hey guys, I'm quiting my job, what do you guys think, is it the right choice or shoud i stick to it?(remember, im extremely overworked and underpaid) i have an interview for another job, or if i don't get it i can work in another place where i would have to bring my own students (which i have to coming with me now).
thanks for the input

flechas

 

[8HourPilot]

Dude,

Coming from another CFI. What job are you going to...you don't want to get out of the aviation industry right now, you'll never get back in.

 

[Flechas]

not getting out

im not getting out of aviation, im applying for another CFI job, and if i dont get it i will be instructing two students initially at another school, i talked to them and they said i could bring my own. the one im applying for they would give me students plus the two im bringing with me. it's just that im really fed up with my boss, thanks anyway.

flechas

 

[acaTerry]

What would be nice is if you can set your own rate that the stdts pay you directly.

 

[Flechas]

i know, that would be great, but where i live there's just too many CFis, and i would also would like to get a few more hours under my belt and build more reputation. right now a few people that have flown with me have put out a good word, and because of that i can take at least two students now with me and will have a few more in the near future. the school im applying with is very good and has very good airplanes, the one i have to bring my students pays me $20/hr, which is two times what im making now.

flechas

 

[acaTerry]

20 bucks an hour. Darn good for CFI pay. These days that's even better than some regional pilots pay.
Perhaps if you come in and keep bringing in stdts, you can talk them into even more.

 

[Flechas]

i know, and they give 25 for multi instruction, i'm just worried about not having more students, just because i was used to get all the walk ins at my present job, but i think i can manage to keep bringing some, and also have to get a non-flying job.

 

[Flyairjason]

Hey Flechas,
Here are some ideas for you to consider that worked out really well for me...
1. Really invest in your students... How? Make them smarter pilots by including ground instruction in EVERY lesson... God knows we need smater pilots out there these days, and your students will see a difference in your level of instruction versus that of your colleagues... In other words they wont feel like your just trying to get them in the plane to further your career, and you will both have a higher level of satisfaction with the flight lesson. Utilize the wipe board, draw some overhead projections in your spare time to accentuate their learning with visual tactics, heck, even use a little model C172 to demonstrate stalls or cross-wind landings. In the end, your students WILL be smarter pilots, appreciate your teaching style, and your level of "client service" will be better than those around you. And right now, with the glut of CFIs, it's all about service... You gotta stomp out the knuckleheads around you but if you ALL look alike, the service will set you apart. Oh yeah, did I mention that you could turn the 1.3 or so hours you were previously getting paid for into 1.9 or even 2.0 hours of pay... It'll make a difference.

2. Remember how hard you worked to get where you are? Then act like it... These folks aren't doing you a favor with flight hours, you're providing them a SERVICE, and with that comes a fee. Lawyers do it, Doctors do it, and you know what? So should CFIs. If a student is 20 minutes late, they have to pay for it. I know that it sounds kinda cold, but their tardiness takes food out of your mouth, my friend. You are a business person, and you are operating Flechas Business, so act like it. In the end your students will appreciate your business code, and you wont get screwed by someone's lack of consideration for your time. Conversely, you can't be late or go on a smoke break or run late in your daily schedule either. Sometimes, it will happen though and with that, you have to be a sensitive and responsive business person... If you're late from a cross-country for a primary student who is excited about soloing, you may want to comp them an hour... We all like something for free, and it'll tell your student that you care about his or her education and time. You have to run your instruction as "Flechas little business"...

3. Take your time and have fun, my friend. If you put all of your heart into your flight instruction, it will be more fulfilling for both instructor and client. What's more, there is no hurry right now, dude... When I was instructing, I felt compelled to hurry with the time because back then there were plenty of jobs out there waiting. That isn't the case right now, but IT WILL CHANGE. If you play your cards right, focus on quality not quantity (i.e. a couple of hours of actual instruments with an advanced student is far more valuable than twice that time of touch and goes...) and provide business level service and billing, not only will you be poised for hire when this industry turns around, you can eat Mac-n-Cheese instead of the same ole' Ramen noodles. Heck, perhaps even buy me that beer you've been talking about. (hee, hee)

Hope this helps little bro, it sure made things alot easier for me... And guess what, I even enjoyed flight instructing.
Oh yeah, one more thing... Nobody is going to do you half of the favors they'll brag their doing you. Don't fly for free, and NEVER compromise your safety. If you do, you're perpetuating the machine... But then we talked about that didn't we? Good luck, bro!
Jason

 

[Flechas]

Jason,
thanks a lot for all the advice, it's highly appreciated.
some of those things i already do, some i will from now on. but everything in there is great.
i have decided what to do, i'm leaving that place even if i dont get the job that i applied for, but that doesnt mean i'll be out of aviation, two students are coming with me regardless of where i go, so i'll be flying with them and mmarketing myself to find more.
see you guys up there, fly safe.

flechas

 

[Doberman]

Hey Mung,
Let's hope the job hunt is as good as the Brazilian BBQ.

 

[Mungusaurus]

Brazillian BBQ

If it is life will bee soooooo sweet.
Thanx, Mung. Countin the days!
P.S Home Depot employees make 35K to start plus meds dental 401k and stock options.

 

[treetopflyer]

what?

35k?, that sounds pretty good!

do you get employee discounts on tools too?

maybe my wife needs a new job (hmmmm, all those beautiful tools)

 

[zeppelin]

I am so tired of all the compalining, from the cockpit to the crew lounge to this site, a perfectly good rumor site and you frigin' nancy boys gotta ruin it too. I apparently am the only person who was not forced into aviation. Do these airlines have your family hostage? No well get out or shut up. The only reason you all complain is due to the fact that there is nothing better to do with all the free time you have at work every day. Please look around and appreciate what you got. As for those of you who spend too much time here posting on too many subjects ( you know who you are) find something else to do, honestly you would be alot happier.

 

[Flyairjason]

Zepp,
You are everything small and malleable that corruption could ever hope to manipulate, and you have an unbearable stink to your colleagues whom you disrespect here...

 

[chperplt]

Zepp

What Jason said!!

We pilots like to bitch.. It's the only way our loved ones can be sure we're still alive.

 

[Ailerongirl]

We pilots like to bitch.. It's the only way our loved ones can be sure we're still alive.

Ain't that the truth!