I just read AS may be adding SEA to Tampa, New Orleans, and Detroit!

[Old School 737]

I don't think JNU is gonna happen .for delta .. . I think that delta will come up with bs lawsuit / excuse that Alaska is prohibiting us from competing .. And thats how they will save face by pulling out before it starts .. And since JNU can't be found on a map by most people that's where it will end .. Kind of quietly and disappearing into the darkness

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

When you didn't go to these new cities (SLC-SJC???), and you didn't have a challenge in SEA....


Bye Bye---General Lee

I wouldn't worry so much about the SLC flights not making sense. If it makes more sense to you, think about it as an addition to our destinations offered from SJC, SAN etc. SLC has been a large hole in the Alaska network for a long time.

 

[General Lee]

That's correct, although I don't think only Delta has figured that out. Alaska has lots of places for them to go with direct service. Cancun was always full, but the revenue wasn't there. In guessing people didn't want to spend any more to go there over the rest of our destinations in mexico that we have a lot more flights into and therefore able to keep the total cost of the operation lower. Cancun may make more sense then others for Delta for the exact same reason.

Well, you do a lot of Hawaii, and that is good for your frequent flyers. NWA used to do SEA to OGG and KOA (mainly a fuel stop for the 757-300 on return), which hopefully DL will reinstate. A second HNL nonstop daily will occur this upcoming Winter, a daytime trip. Those types of flights may not be as profitable, but necessary.

Still, my point was your company is adding cities that seem interesting, and we'll have to see if DTW, TPA, or any of the new SLC routes does well enough to stick around. DL added more cities that were "seasonal", probably because DL can shift planes around to other parts of the country or hubs if needed.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

Yep, I think some if the SLC flying is using jets that were otherwise RON so they aren't using a lot of resources to do it. In fact it may even increase crew productivity by adding another short leg to the day, much like Southwest. I think Alaska has stayed out of the market as an unspoken agreement with Delta, but that has obviously changed with Delta building up SEA domestically.

 

[General Lee]

I wouldn't worry so much about the SLC flights not making sense. If it makes more sense to you, think about it as an addition to our destinations offered from SJC, SAN etc. SLC has been a large hole in the Alaska network for a long time.

Ah, I don't know about that. SLC has been a connecting hub that competed with DEN to cities in Montana, Colorado, SD, ND, etc. SLC itself has some O&D due to Winter Skiing etc, but it's not a huge city.

Let's see if you guys can fill daily flights without connections. One thing is good for DL pilots though, because of your move, DL will increase the size of the SLC hub by 8%. That's good, and building the SEA hub up internally also is awesome.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mamma]

One thing is good for DL pilots though, because of your move, DL will increase the size of the SLC hub by 8%. That's good, and building the SEA hub up internally also is awesome.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Growth of both airlines is a "win win" for all pilots!

 

[CesnaCaptn]

No, I understand that. But, DL figured something else out, you have to reward your best customers with places that they want to take their families on vacation too. If you want business customer loyalty, a reward for that loyalty pays off in the end. Kinda like adding JNU in the Summer. You'd think CUN would fit that mold from SEA in the Winter. Oh well, maybe DL will add that next Winter....


Bye Bye---General Lee

Alaska's mileage plan has been ranked time and time again above its peers.

I'm pretty sure our best customers feel rewarded by being able to take their families anywhere our mileage partners fly:

Aeromexico
Air France
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta Air Lines
Emirates
Era Alaska
Fiji Airways
KLM
Korean
LAN
Penair
Qantas

Does that cover enough of the globe for you? I'd venture to guess that our mileage plan members have as much choice, if not more choice, since they don't need to stick to one global alliance.

At least our frequent flyers don't refer to our miles as SkyPesos.

 

[General Lee]

Alaska's mileage plan has been ranked time and time again above its peers.

I'm pretty sure our best customers feel rewarded by being able to take their families anywhere our mileage partners fly:

Aeromexico
Air France
American Airlines
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Delta Air Lines
Emirates
Era Alaska
Fiji Airways
KLM
Korean
LAN
Penair
Qantas

Does that cover enough of the globe for you? I'd venture to guess that our mileage plan members have as much choice, if not more choice, since they don't need to stick to one global alliance.

At least our frequent flyers don't refer to our miles as SkyPesos.

Uhhhh, do you have 25 million members? I didn't think so. Did you make $1.3 billion in one quarter last year? How about all of last year? I didn't think so. Remember, a lot of this that has happened is because you guys couldn't pick one friend to be loyal to, and that may have been a big mistake on your part. But, the DL pilots thank you A LOT!

What's great is that your mileage plan members will now get a choice in SEA. And many of those airlines above don't go to SEA (Cathay, Qantas, LAN, etc) adding another obstacle in convenience for the busy business guy and his family. Nah, they want seamless travel on one airline....



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Growth of both airlines is a "win win" for all pilots!

I agree Mamma, I agree.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mea25000]

Uhhhh, do you have 25 million members? I didn't think so. Did you make $1.3 billion in one quarter last year? How about all of last year? I didn't think so. Remember, a lot of this that has happened is because you guys couldn't pick one friend to be loyal to, and that may have been a big mistake on your part. But, the DL pilots thank you A LOT!

Ah I think the better question to ask is... Have we ever been in bankruptcy or have we ever lost billions in just one quarter. You must have amnesia.. Emirite

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Uhhhh, do you have 25 million members? I didn't think so. Did you make $1.3 billion in one quarter last year? How about all of last year? I didn't think so. Remember, a lot of this that has happened is because you guys couldn't pick one friend to be loyal to, and that may have been a big mistake on your part. But, the DL pilots thank you A LOT!

What's great is that your mileage plan members will now get a choice in SEA. And many of those airlines above don't go to SEA (Cathay, Qantas, LAN, etc) adding another obstacle in convenience for the busy business guy and his family. Nah, they want seamless travel on one airline....



Bye Bye---General Lee

It doesn't matter how many total members you have or that you finally had a good year.

Let's say you're a frequent flyer living in SEA (I think DL calls them HVCs). You could join Delta's FF program and only earn and redeam miles on Skyteam members or you could join Alaska's mileage plan. On Alaska's plan you can earn miles on not only Alaska, but Delta, AA, and half of both Skyteam and Oneworld. By Alaska not declaring their loyalty to DL, we're able to offer miles and redemption on multiple airlines with multiple alliances. You say HVCs want seamless travel on one airline. Code sharing ensures seamless. I'm pretty sure passengers don't care about one airline, unless you are Singapore Airlines or some other top airline (not you Delta).

 

[General Lee]

Uhhhh, do you have 25 million members? I didn't think so. Did you make $1.3 billion in one quarter last year? How about all of last year? I didn't think so. Remember, a lot of this that has happened is because you guys couldn't pick one friend to be loyal to, and that may have been a big mistake on your part. But, the DL pilots thank you A LOT!

Ah I think the better question to ask is... Have we ever been in bankruptcy or have we ever lost billions in just one quarter. You must have amnesia.. Emirite

You might have your chance eventually . I hope not, but you never know....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

It doesn't matter how many total members you have or that you finally had a good year.

Let's say you're a frequent flyer living in SEA (I think DL calls them HVCs). You could join Delta's FF program and only earn and redeam miles on Skyteam members or you could join Alaska's mileage plan. On Alaska's plan you can earn miles on not only Alaska, but Delta, AA, and half of both Skyteam and Oneworld. By Alaska not declaring their loyalty to DL, we're able to offer miles and redemption on multiple airlines with multiple alliances. You say HVCs want seamless travel on one airline. Code sharing ensures seamless. I'm pretty sure passengers don't care about one airline, unless you are Singapore Airlines or some other top airline (not you Delta).

So, you can stay in the same terminal going to Australia on Qantas? That is called seamless. You are a niche airline with bigger partners that actually offer the choices. Your hometown status will be challenged, and that makes you nervous. That is understandable.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mamma]

So, you can stay in the same terminal going to Australia on Qantas? That is called seamless. You are a niche airline with bigger partners that actually offer the choices. Your hometown status will be challenged, and that makes you nervous. That is understandable.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Not really. We'll just keep on doing what we are doing. I think its Delta that is nervous. Nervous enough they brought in a VP to Seattle. This is make or break for Delta. They have to get this feed. Alaska has enough dance partners (American namely) to be OK. You should try worrying about yourself and if your VP can pull off this JNU mess and work a bunch of RJs with Skywest. Good luck!

 

[General Lee]

Not really. We'll just keep on doing what we are doing. I think its Delta that is nervous. Nervous enough they brought in a VP to Seattle. This is make or break for Delta. They have to get this feed. Alaska has enough dance partners (American namely) to be OK. You should try worrying about yourself and if your VP can pull off this JNU mess and work a bunch of RJs with Skywest. Good luck!

No, bringing a VP means things are "serious", as in big investment. How is that "make or break?" Huh? DL is in the process of transferring the NRT hub to SEA, doing more point to point to Asia instead of hubbing through NRT. They will converge flights from all over the US to SEA, to feed Widebody INTL flights, not just to Asia but also Amsterdam, Paris, and London Heathrow. They USED TO give you guys the feed, but that is changing. There are a few other VP's of cities for DL, like one in NYC. Have you seen the expansion there? DL has 52% of all slots at LGA, and just completed a new $2 billion terminal at JFK. Uhhhhhh, it's serious.....

And have you seen your own SKW flights adding up at SEA? I think you just added OMA (????) and COS with them. How many more can they add? What is your scope? The reason DL is adding E175s out West is because they are being bumped out of DTW by mainline 717s coming in. I hope someday they add some to SEA, to go up against your RJs. Luckily for you the Dashes are leaving SEA, but oooops, they are heading for ANC... The DL JNU flight should be interesting, and the locals and plenty of DL connections in SEA will appreciate it.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mamma]

No, bringing a VP means things are "serious", as in big investment. How is that "make or break?" Huh? DL is in the process of transferring the NRT hub to SEA, doing more point to point to Asia instead of hubbing through NRT. They will converge flights from all over the US to SEA, to feed Widebody INTL flights, not just to Asia but also Amsterdam, Paris, and London Heathrow. They USED TO give you guys the feed, but that is changing. There are a few other VP's of cities for DL, like one in NYC. Have you seen the expansion there? DL has 52% of all slots at LGA, and just completed a new $2 billion terminal at JFK. Uhhhhhh, it's serious.....

And have you seen your own SKW flights adding up at SEA? I think you just added OMA (????) and COS with them. How many more can they add? What is your scope? The reason DL is adding E175s out West is because they are being bumped out of DTW by mainline 717s coming in. I hope someday they add some to SEA, to go up against your RJs. Luckily for you the Dashes are leaving SEA, but oooops, they are heading for ANC... The DL JNU flight should be interesting, and the locals and plenty of DL connections in SEA will appreciate it.



Bye Bye---General Lee

I can't really have an intelligent debate with you as you never learn. I have beat the Skywest thing to death with you. Don't you read???? I think the AAG owns 6 CRJs that would otherwise be sitting in the desert having payments made on them. Our scope on RJs is not the problem. Our scope is a problem if we acquire something larger.

Don't be mistaken or consumed with arrogance. This is a BIG make or break for Delta. They have to have feed or they start bleeding big time. They need organic feed as well as code-share feed. Good luck getting the gates for all that organic feed. There is a lot of competition for them and Delta is not the only game in town.

 

[General Lee]

I can't really have an intelligent debate with you as you never learn. I have beat the Skywest thing to death with you. Don't you read???? I think the AAG owns 6 CRJs that would otherwise be sitting in the desert having payments made on them. Our scope on RJs is not the problem. Our scope is a problem if we acquire something larger.

Don't be mistaken or consumed with arrogance. This is a BIG make or break for Delta. They have to have feed or they start bleeding big time. They need organic feed as well as code-share feed. Good luck getting the gates for all that organic feed. There is a lot of competition for them and Delta is not the only game in town.

And you don't think DL has thought through this? Really? I do think you are nervous. DL has the money and resources , and the SEA airport wants more INTL flights for the revenue. The VP there is busy getting corporate contracts and sponsoring teams like the Seahawks.

Adding E175s on some CA routes may not seem like a big deal now, but it may be setting up for larger planes, and that monopoly you once had may not be there eventually. You are limited by the planes you fly, range wise. You don't have hubs anywhere else but the West Coast. (SLC???). It will be interesting....

And intelligent debates mean not getting upset.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PBRstreetgang]

not getting upset.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Not getting upset, for you means, proper medication combinations. We have all seen what happens when your mom doesn't keep your on your meds on schedule....

 

[Mamma]

And you don't think DL has thought through this? Really? I do think you are nervous. DL has the money and resources , and the SEA airport wants more INTL flights for the revenue. The VP there is busy getting corporate contracts and sponsoring teams like the Seahawks.

Adding E175s on some CA routes may not seem like a big deal now, but it may be setting up for larger planes, and that monopoly you once had may not be there eventually. You are limited by the planes you fly, range wise. You don't have hubs anywhere else but the West Coast. (SLC???). It will be interesting....

And intelligent debates mean not getting upset.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Wow! Sponsoring the SeaHawks! Alaska is done.

Intelligent debates happen when you don't purposely peddle inflammatory information that is untrue. Information that has been explained to you a multitude of times. It has nothing to do with getting upset, it is about moving forward and not having to put the gear shift in reverser to explain things to you over and over again.

Anyway, to backpedal again: I wish Delta well. They need both organic airlift and cheaper code-share to get the feed to expand Seattle. They need gates that are not yet available. I want Delta to expand Seattle because that means more business for Alaska. It means more jobs for Alaska pilots and Delta pilots. It means more money for both airlines. Everyone wins. I don't think Delta's intent is to put Alaska out of business. They like the cheaper codeshare but they are going to have to compete to get the organic feed established. There is more than enough business to go around. In addition, I think Juneau was a tactical mistake that will be short-lived unless you get the RNP. It's not just as simple as issuing green pages either. As for Alaska's placement of Rjs, Q400s and 737s on routes, you should not worry about that unless you are going to do the homework to find out what is really going on.

 

[BarbrPole2theOM]

Nice post mamma. +1

 

[General Lee]

Thank you Mamma, for setting me straight and giving the truth, and nothing but the truth..... In other words, "whatever!"

The fact remains that DL will be growing the hub and now doesn't need to rely on your feed. That is FANTASTIC news for DL pilots, and huge profits as of late will help fund it. It will be great to watch.

And people do pay attention to where you place your planes and what type they are. It's very telling.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mamma]

Thank you Mamma, for setting me straight and giving the truth, and nothing but the truth..... In other words, "I'm incapable of critical thought."


Bye Bye---General Lee

Fixed it for you. I hope you don't wonder why nobody takes you serious. You claim to like the debate but when your predetermined outcome is shown as flawed, this is how you react: like a child. I'll move on now.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I can't really have an intelligent debate with you as you never learn. I have beat the Skywest thing to death with you. Don't you read???? I think the AAG owns 6 CRJs that would otherwise be sitting in the desert having payments made on them. Our scope on RJs is not the problem. Our scope is a problem if we acquire something larger.

Don't be mistaken or consumed with arrogance. This is a BIG make or break for Delta. They have to have feed or they start bleeding big time. They need organic feed as well as code-share feed. Good luck getting the gates for all that organic feed. There is a lot of competition for them and Delta is not the only game in town.

Need code share feed? That's just an Alaska guy dreaming.....we can fly those jets and having the Port in your pocket doesn't mean you can hoard gates. Those suckers cheer ANY international flights and that's what we bring to the table. You are no different than an RJ if you feel that's your place in life.

 

[Mamma]

Need code share feed? That's just an Alaska guy dreaming.....we can fly those jets and having the Port in your pocket doesn't mean you can hoard gates. Those suckers cheer ANY international flights and that's what we bring to the table. You are no different than an RJ if you feel that's your place in life.

Bill, catch up. The discussion is ABOUT Delta expansion, code-share and west coast feed. You guys sure think the earth rotates around Delta. Here's the thing you Delta dimwits don't get: Your boss wanted more feed. Alaska said no. Now you have to grow organically. You just won and yet you are upset with Alaska and want to blast us out of existence. Is that rational?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Bill, catch up. The discussion is ABOUT Delta expansion, code-share and west coast feed. You guys sure think the earth rotates around Delta. Here's the thing you Delta dimwits don't get: Your boss wanted more feed. Alaska said no. Now you have to grow organically. You just won and yet you are upset with Alaska and want to blast us out of existence. Is that rational?

Ok Mamma...

So why is it you feel you are the only 737 operator with a base in SEA that can fly the 737? Tell me....you take this attitude, like we are so dependent on you. Here's the difference, my airline can feed itself using it's own jets....whereas you guys lately need somebody elses feed to fill yours.

If the AA and DAL codeshares walked away, you'd be a skeleton with not much meat left on it to make a dent.

Nobody wants to blast you guys out of existence, in fact, Alaska is great with good people. I wish everybody a good career, but when I get on here and read about some of your compadres talking like we can't compete or even fly your routes safely....I gotta throw in the BS flag.

 

[moochild11]

You freakin delta guys just don't get it..we at Alaska have been down this road so many times before it is becoming routine..big airline says "I want west coast" then they build up an operation and 2 years later figure out they can't make any headway and then shrink back to Denver or Atlanta or Dallas..of course delta is capable of flying 737's wherever they want..but not profitably..if you don't want our codeshare traffic then how are you gonna get someone from
Yakima to Tokyo? Are you going to completely cover our operation with empty airplanes to capture all of your Asia pax? Cause you aren't going to get any local traffic..seeing as how the vast majority of nw pax have lots of Alaska miles..most likely you'll see our little Yakima pax go to Asia on another Alaska partner..using their already existing Alaska miles..and delta accounts for 3% of our revenue..not exactly our lifeblood

 

[Old School 737]

Yes the code share help fill seats .but, I can't believe that we would be nothing but a shell of an airline left if American and delta code shares went away ..

 

[General Lee]

Yes the code share help fill seats .but, I can't believe that we would be nothing but a shell of an airline left if American and delta code shares went away ..

Let's look at the two code shares. AA gives AK what exactly? Well, AK does fly to DFW and ORD for connections to other cities, both domestic and INTL. AK used to fly nonstop from ANC to ORD, but that isn't flying currently, probably seasonal. AA is merging with US, giving more connections out of PHX, CLT, and PHL (nonstop out of SEA and some PDX flights). AA and US don't really have a lot of flights from their hubs to SEA, and zero INTL connections in SEA. AK could give gates to AA/US to try INTL flights on larger planes, but that would take away existing gates from AK. If AK joined One World Alliance, there could be some INTL connections available in SEA, mainly BA and Asiana(?). AK may have just started a codeshare with Korean Air, but other than nonstops to Seoul, KE gives one stop connections down route from ICN, whereas most locals in SEA would rather go nonstop to destinations in Asia, and DL will provide that to the largest Asian cities.

The DL codeshare was much more involved. Many wide bodies from INTL destinations came in to SEA daily, unloading local and connecting pax. DL didn't do flying from North to South on the West Coast, allowing AK to bring all of that feed to help fill DL wide bodies. Connections to the State of Alaska helped fill DL planes heading to places AK didn't go nonstop. It seemed like a great deal for everyone, ensuring full planes on both sides.


Then, something happened... Not enough loyalty? Someone too greedy? I don't know. But I'll tell you this, DL has the resources now to build up their own connections, and it sounds like the port wants more INTL revenue, so they may want it to happen. Also, because the NRT hub was scaling back due to the ability now to overfly NRT and go nonstop to most Asian markets, SEA is the obvious choice to launch flights, especially to smaller Asian cities that can be reached by 767-300ERs. It's too bad this friendship seems to be souring, but one side has the funds to keep going.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Mamma]

Ok Mamma...

So why is it you feel you are the only 737 operator with a base in SEA that can fly the 737? Tell me....you take this attitude, like we are so dependent on you. Here's the difference, my airline can feed itself using it's own jets....whereas you guys lately need somebody elses feed to fill yours.

If the AA and DAL codeshares walked away, you'd be a skeleton with not much meat left on it to make a dent.

Nobody wants to blast you guys out of existence, in fact, Alaska is great with good people. I wish everybody a good career, but when I get on here and read about some of your compadres talking like we can't compete or even fly your routes safely....I gotta throw in the BS flag.

I'm not sure what posts you are reading or if this is a comprehension issue. Probably it's that I've not been clear. Nobody has said you can't fly a 737 safely anywhere. If this is in regards to Juneau, we have never said you could not fly there safely. We have said that unless you have a tailored RNP into JNU, you are going to probably divert a lot. GL, who understands little of these kind of approaches, thinks you can just whip one up over the weekend when that is not the case.

As for feed, if you are going to fly intl out of SEA, Alaska code share makes sense because we have the west pretty well covered. Delta can go ahead and fly against us anywhere they want to get the organic feed and that is good for Delta pilots. Alaska told your boss no to a more exclusive code-share deal. That is a big win for you as I dont see many Delta mainline jets going north and south on the west coast. You cost structure is higher and yields are low on these routes so it will be tough. Maybe you can offset the costs with the intl flying. I don't know. Anyway, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a great Christmas. I don't see our codeshare reducing much but I could very well be wrong as I am just a gear-puller with a lot of long unproductive sits in crappy places.

 

[General Lee]

I'm not sure what posts you are reading or if this is a comprehension issue. Probably it's that I've not been clear. Nobody has said you can't fly a 737 safely anywhere. If this is in regards to Juneau, we have never said you could not fly there safely. We have said that unless you have a tailored RNP into JNU, you are going to probably divert a lot. GL, who understands little of these kind of approaches, thinks you can just whip one up over the weekend when that is not the case.

As for feed, if you are going to fly intl out of SEA, Alaska code share makes sense because we have the west pretty well covered. Delta can go ahead and fly against us anywhere they want to get the organic feed and that is good for Delta pilots. Alaska told your boss no to a more exclusive code-share deal. That is a big win for you as I dont see many Delta mainline jets going north and south on the west coast. You cost structure is higher and yields are low on these routes so it will be tough. Maybe you can offset the costs with the intl flying. I don't know. Anyway, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a great Christmas. I don't see our codeshare reducing much but I could very well be wrong as I am just a gear-puller with a lot of long unproductive sits in crappy places.

Ouch. I don't think I ever stated anyone could whip up an RNP app out of nowhere. I do know DL had a six month lead on this. Is that enough? I bet people are looking into this and spending money, though.

I think a lot of the DL pilots are just happy about gaining some internal flying back. The West Coast bases are senior, and extra flying means a lot to them. I've even read something on another board that stated a few 717s may find there way over there for a few North to South flights sometime this upcoming Summer. That would be great if true, replacing some of those RJs.


Bye Bye---General Lee