I hate to ask ... Logging KA90/200 right-seat Pt 91 ...

[Snakum]

God ... I hate to even ask. I've actually printed out a few threads on this subject for reference, but the threads are always about Part 135 ops. This one is Part 91, and each aircraft (more than one) is owned jointly by four or five companies. But anyway, here's the dealio:

Part 91 King Air ops, company likes to have an FO, but FO obviously not required in any way shape nor form. Company CP gives all FOs an oral and flight check and they have a company training record, etc. Not a 135 sign-off though, obviously.

I am told that one guy doing this deal logged PIC for the Sole Manipulator time.

One guy logged all the SIC time because they never turned on the autopilot.

I say the only way time can be logged is if the PIC is an MEI, and then the empty legs can be logged as ME Instruction Received. If so, how much ME instruction would be prudent to log? I can't very well show up to an interview with 100 hours of multi twin turbine dual received.

Again ... Part 91 ... who's right, and why?

Minh

 

[CitationLover]

if you are multi-rated and am sole manipulator i don't see why pic is a problem. be prepared for questions regarding that a/c though on any subsequent interview.

i would think sic is a nono as it is not required.

the multi-instruction will also work. how did you log your training if there was any in the airplane?

 

[Snakum]

No training yet ... I'm not yet Com/ME rated ... so no logging yet. I will be discussing the whole deal in more detail later today, hopefully, and will have my Comm/ME by September if all goes according to plan. I'm just trying to get a handle on the legalities of Pt 91 logging before I talk to him.

I printed Avbug's posts on Part 135 SIC logging, but I rarely read anything on Part 91.

Minh

 

[prpjt]

Part 91 King Air ops, company likes to have an FO, but FO obviously not required in any way shape nor form. Company CP gives all FOs an oral and flight check and they have a company training record, etc. Not a 135 sign-off though, obviously.

I am told that one guy doing this deal logged PIC for the Sole Manipulator time.

One guy logged all the SIC time because they never turned on the autopilot.

I say the only way time can be logged is if the PIC is an MEI, and then the empty legs can be logged as ME Instruction Received. If so, how much ME instruction would be prudent to log? I can't very well show up to an interview with 100 hours of multi twin turbine dual received.

Again ... Part 91 ... who's right, and why?

Minh

Here's the skinny. First of all, the only thing in the first paragraph that has any bearing on your question is this "Part 91 King Air ops" What the CP does or likes has no bearing on how you log time.

Guy #1 is whithin the regs if he is current and rated in the plane. Sole manipulator reg is kinda goofy but very clear.

Guy #2 is going to be the life of the party at his first interview. Much laughter to be had at his expense.

Did you know there is a guy on this forum that pees in two streams after sex? WTF?, does that have to do with the question? It's about as relevant as an auto pilot in a part 91 King Air. It's like saying he logged it PIC because the plane has boots??????

You sir are kind of close , sort of. The MEI scenario would work to log dual. The plane would not have to be empty though. You wrote "I say the only way time can be logged ". Darn that word only. Have cappy put on a hood and BAM! you are a required crewmember by regulation.

Good luck

"No training yet ... I'm not yet Com/ME rated"

EDIT: Just saw that you aren't multi rated yet. Throws out scenario #1. So you are right in your case, multi instruction is the way to get it logged.

 

[A Squared]

Snakum,

You obviously can't log SIC time because an SIC is not required by the type certificate, nor is it required by the regulations (part 91)

You can log PIC for that time when you are sole manipulator of the controls. Many airlines will not accept this as PIC though. Incidentally, if you're logging PIC, the other guy can't log anything.


You could also Log Dual given. I can't give you any guidance as to how much is appropriate, but like you said, noone will be inmpressed by 100 hours of dual given.

 

[Snakum]

Thanks for the info, everybody.

If this works out, I'm thinking I will log Multi-Engine Instruction Received until I passed the ME checkride, of course, then log only PIC for the sole manipulator time on empty legs. I do all my totals in pencil anyway, and so I can change it however I need to down the road. By all accounts, they do a pretty thorough ground school and flight check for the part-time Radio Hoes, so between that and my own study discipline I know I will be able to stay on top of systems and ops.

If it was Part 135, I would log the time as SIC after the ME ride. I think Avbug's take on it is correct, and that's the way local guys are doing it too, with blessing from the FAA. But since this is Part 91, I think I'd prefer to play it safer,

Minh

 

[CapnVegetto]

Why does the plane have to be empty to log dual if the PIC is an MEI? I've never seen any kind of reg on this. If you're in a 172, and your Mom comes with you and your instructor on a dual cross country is it not also still a flight lesson? Dual received? If I'm wrong, someone please show me the reg, but I was never aware that PAX had any bearing on how time was logged.

 

[Snakum]

Why does the plane have to be empty to log dual if the PIC is an MEI?

Company SOP. Wif pax I kin only yank da gear and play wid da buttons.

And I wouldn't log 'Multi-Engine Instruction Received' unless I was actually sole manipulator and receiving some instruction. That's just my little quirk, like not logging Safety Pilot time. I'm very conservative about logging my time, but I offer no opinions about what others do usually.

Minhberg

 

[Workin'Stiff]

Another thing to consider. As per 61.31(g), you better have a high-altitude endorsement to log PIC in either the KA90 or 200. Both are pressurized aircraft and have a service ceiling above 25,000.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

I do all my totals in pencil anyway, and so I can change it however I need to down the road.

What the F? You mean "it's some iffy crap and if anybody tries to bust my balls on it later I'll just erase it." That's some wild crap man. If it's not legit enough to put in pen then it doesn't belong in your logbook.

Enjoy the ride, sniff the jetA, and quit trying to pad your book.