I guess no doesn't mean no for Delta

[hockeypilot44]

Yeah, it's funny how we had no competition in Dallas for over 30 years and no one cared. Now every clown airline shows up and demands we should have competition. Where ya been all these years?

Southwest started going into LGA/ATL/DEN/DCA/etc. Did Southwest really think it was going to encroach on the high value markets of other carriers and not have them do the same back?

 

[Flopgut]

Yeah, it's funny how we had no competition in Dallas for over 30 years and no one cared. Now every clown airline shows up and demands we should have competition. Where ya been all these years?

They want to cozy up to your operation. See if they too can perfect flying with giant shoes, a foam red nose, and a rainbow wig

Idea: Help them with the bucket/water/confetti trick, and I'll bet theyll help you write a functional etops program

 

[Andy]

Southwest started going into LGA/ATL/DEN/DCA/etc. Did Southwest really think it was going to encroach on the high value markets of other carriers and not have them do the same back?

Reading through this thread, apparently, yes.

It appears to me that the Judge has decided to make a ruling by not making a ruling. Either way, I expect Southwest to have to lease space to Delta indefinitely.

 

[HowardBorden]

Either way, I expect Southwest to have to lease space to Delta indefinitely.

That very well may be true, but I don't think Delta is going to like the price. If SWA paid $120 million for the lease of the gate, I can only assume they would be able to charge a lease fee commensurate with a pro-rated portion of that total bill.

 

[Andy]

That very well may be true, but I don't think Delta is going to like the price. If SWA paid $120 million for the lease of the gate, I can only assume they would be able to charge a lease fee commensurate with a pro-rated portion of that total bill.

You might be right but precedent has been something different. In the past (distant and recent), Southwest and other 'disadvantaged' airlines have been given legacy gates and slots for well below value by the government.

It's interesting to watch you and others use the exact same arguments that legacy pilots were using when their companies were forced to divest gates/slots to Southwest and others. Those arguments didn't work for us but they may work for Southwest - in which case, perhaps a clawback of gates/slots previously given to Southwest and others under duress should be reviewed?

By the way, I don't think that the disclosure that Southwest paid $120M for those gates went over very well with the judge.

 

[HowardBorden]

You might be right but precedent has been something different. In the past (distant and recent), Southwest and other 'disadvantaged' airlines have been given legacy gates and slots for well below value by the government.

It's interesting to watch you and others use the exact same arguments that legacy pilots were using when their companies were forced to divest gates/slots to Southwest and others. Those arguments didn't work for us but they may work for Southwest - in which case, perhaps a clawback of gates/slots previously given to Southwest and others under duress should be reviewed?

By the way, I don't think that the disclosure that Southwest paid $120M for those gates went over very well with the judge.

But Andy, the slots you speak of were parceled out by lottery, at no cost to the airlines!

Delta had the same opportunity to make offers for the gate in question, and did in fact make an offer. SWA outbid them. If SWA had to pay the amount they paid to secure the gate, it only seems that their sublease agreement would need to address the the price they paid to outbid Delta for the use of the gate in question.

 

[Andy]

But Andy, the slots you speak of were parceled out by lottery, at no cost to the airlines!

No, I'm not talking about the Dallas Love stuff. All of the other auctions that were rigged so that there was only Southwest and maybe a couple other bidders. Those airlines selling the gates/slots did NOT want to divest their slots to Southwest or any other carrier. But you know that; you're just choosing to ignore all of those other auctions.

Those gates/slots were worth significantly more than Southwest and others paid for them.

Delta had the same opportunity to make offers for the gate in question, and did in fact make an offer. SWA outbid them. If SWA had to pay the amount they paid to secure the gate, it only seems that their sublease agreement would need to address the the price they paid to outbid Delta for the use of the gate in question.

I really hope you get your wish and Southwest jacks up the rates into the stratosphere on the gate Delta's using. I'd love to see how regulatory authorities would respond.

 

[HowardBorden]

No, I'm not talking about the Dallas Love stuff. All of the other auctions that were rigged so that there was only Southwest and maybe a couple other bidders. Those airlines selling the gates/slots did NOT want to divest their slots to Southwest or any other carrier. But you know that; you're just choosing to ignore all of those other auctions.

I'm not talking about the Dallas Love stuff either. All the slots at every airport that is slot controlled were specifically granted to the airlines through a lottery process and the airlines paid zero dollars to get them. The commodity of slots were awarded originally free of charge.

If and when an airline decides to enter a merger or acquisition with another airline they absolutely know going in that regulatory agencies may require divestitures from the combined carrier if the combination presents monopolistic issues as decided by those regulatory bodies.

 

[Flopgut]

If and when an airline decides to enter a merger or acquisition with another airline they absolutely know going in that regulatory agencies may require divestitures from the combined carrier if the combination presents monopolistic issues as decided by those regulatory bodies.

Wonder what things would look like today if Love had been parceled out all those years ago... Instead of: everybody leave but SWA

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/airline-stocks-pulled-down-by-southwests-lowered-outlook-2015-12-08

Very intersting^^^^^^

 

[Andy]

I'm not talking about the Dallas Love stuff either. All the slots at every airport that is slot controlled were specifically granted to the airlines through a lottery process and the airlines paid zero dollars to get them. The commodity of slots were awarded originally free of charge.

If and when an airline decides to enter a merger or acquisition with another airline they absolutely know going in that regulatory agencies may require divestitures from the combined carrier if the combination presents monopolistic issues as decided by those regulatory bodies.

You mean something was once free and now worth $120 million? Sound familiar?

Not all legacy forced divestitures were due to mergers. AMR and United were forced to give up assets at ORD about a decade ago.

Feel free to rationalize this any way you like, it doesn't matter. The DOT's not going to allow Southwest a virtual monopoly at Love field; I don't care if they buy gates for $1 billion apiece.