I am Confused, Should I Right it Up?

[SoberIrishman]

Better be right than rong I guess!

 

[jynxyjericho]

And personally I find it offence they would publish a warning like this... I am more determined to follow the law...

What you are purposefully missing is an important counterpoint, if a pilot has always written crap up, they're fine, they should continue to act as such. If you or someone at work suddenly finds Jesus and starts following the law all the sudden they'll get canned.

 

[PCL_128]

I am sorry... I respect your opinion but if something needs to be written up it will... If I lose my job so be it... You are mistaken if threats like this will scare us away... We will right up stuff till the chickens come home to roost

If you've always done so, then no problem. The problem comes in when people suddenly change the way they've been doing things. The company tracks the number of write-ups each pilot has, and they monitor trends. When it spikes, they've found a target. And arbitrators are very sympathetic to companies in such circumstances, because the pilot really has no defense. Either he's taking part in an illegal job action, or he never cared about following the law before there was a labor dispute. Either way, he's not looking good, and the arbitrator feels no remorse about ending his career.

 

[PCL_128]

And personally I find it offence they would publish a warning like this... I am more determined to follow the law...

They're required to publish a warning like this. A judge in the 11th Circuit ruled years ago that labor unions have "an affirmative obligation" to stop illegal job actions. It's not enough that the union doesn't start the job action, they're actually required to do everything in their power to stop it. The judge went so far as to suggest that ALPA should expel members from the union who are suspected of taking part.

 

[mightyM]

Meanwhile at booger king, Mr. I ain't got no education but I best be gettin my $20 raise or else I'm gonna flip those burgers a hole lot slower because I got babies to feed gets national coverage and a high five from everyone....FML .....FT..RLA.

Various parts spelled in error on purpose for dramatical humor.
Your welcome.

 

[Ops check good]

airlines have software that tracks maintenance write-up rates by aircraft, engine, pilot, mechanic, etc.

I'm not at Xjet but I am an airline mechanic so I need to say you are correct on this to a point. Every discrepancy/corrective action for every A/C is entered into a database (including all employee #s). People are tracking said entry's but it is for reliability reasons (checking for repeat items to flag). I have no idea if somebody is looking for any single employee discrepancy rate to go up. I do know that you can search an employee number and everything that employee has written up/signed off comes up. Either way if it's broke it's broke! We can't do our job if you don't do yours. I think all airline professionals know what the appropriate flight line discrepancies are.

 

[Holy Shiite]

If you've always done so, then no problem. The problem comes in when people suddenly change the way they've been doing things. The company tracks the number of write-ups each pilot has, and they monitor trends. When it spikes, they've found a target. And arbitrators are very sympathetic to companies in such circumstances, because the pilot really has no defense. Either he's taking part in an illegal job action, or he never cared about following the law before there was a labor dispute. Either way, he's not looking good, and the arbitrator feels no remorse about ending his career.

If this guy is/was your ALPA grievance committee member/volunteer then take matters into your own hands. This wimp is exactly the type of person the company loves to see on the other side of the aisle..... A pushover afraid of his own shadow. Is this guy for real?? I really hope not and have to question the validity of this person. A 717 pilot? What reason do you have to be here on these boards? What agenda do you have? Who's side are you on pal?????


During negotiations I have seen the number of maintenance discrepancies increase and the number of deferrals increase as well. If the company chooses to increase the number of deferred items on each aircraft than the number of write ups will increase as well. More stuff to break and go wrong and subsequently more maintenance write-ups. Been there, done that and worked on the grievance committee as well. Yes, the Pilot has a defense and the alpa attorneys I have worked with were excellent. I Support Pilots in their negotiations. Who supports weakness and apathy?

 

[tyuwerty]

Silly children, PCL is for real.

Never mind though, don't listen to experience, make your own mistakes. I am sure it will work wonderfully for you this time around.

 

[PCL_128]

I really hope not and have to question the validity of this person. A 717 pilot? What reason do you have to be here on these boards? What agenda do you have? Who's side are you on pal?????

Plenty of people here know who am and know my experience. Whose side am I on? I'm on the side of the pilots whose careers I don't want to see lost because some ignorant people on the internet told them that they can't get fired for something that they really can get fired for. You aren't a pilot's advocate if you end his career with your false bravado. I have no problem if you want to be ignorant and end your own career. But please don't encourage others to do so by giving them false information.

 

[jynxyjericho]

If this guy is/was your ALPA grievance committee member/volunteer then take matters into your own hands. This wimp is exactly the type of person the company loves to see on the other side of the aisle..... A pushover afraid of his own shadow. Is this guy for real?? I really hope not and have to question the validity of this person. A 717 pilot? What reason do you have to be here on these boards? What agenda do you have? Who's side are you on pal?????


During negotiations I have seen the number of maintenance discrepancies increase and the number of deferrals increase as well. If the company chooses to increase the number of deferred items on each aircraft than the number of write ups will increase as well. More stuff to break and go wrong and subsequently more maintenance write-ups. Been there, done that and worked on the grievance committee as well. Yes, the Pilot has a defense and the alpa attorneys I have worked with were excellent. I Support Pilots in their negotiations. Who supports weakness and apathy?

Shut your mouth, open your ears (or eyes I suppose).

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Write-up campaigns (when they actually occur) often promote greater understanding of aircraft systems and their specific malfunction or operational regulatory tolerances. For example, a pilot may write-up paint missing or a dent on one of the wing surfaces. At a certain point of measurement from the smooth plane of the wing's surface, the dent becomes a puncture, even though there is no hole. Many flight instruments also have their own tolerances when measured against the redundant instrument. For those pilots who do not regularly write-up or notice these discrepancies, it can be a time of great learning. I know some folks will say that all pilots should already be writing these things up, and that they should have a thorough knowledge of all components and tolerances and torque values of the hold-down bolts on the main wheels, but that is another story. I am merely making a side point. I really don't think there is currently any coordinated MX write-up campaign at XJT. There is no reason for one, yet.

 

[wms]

I'm not at Xjet but I am an airline mechanic so I need to say you are correct on this to a point. Every discrepancy/corrective action for every A/C is entered into a database (including all employee #s). People are tracking said entry's but it is for reliability reasons (checking for repeat items to flag). I have no idea if somebody is looking for any single employee discrepancy rate to go up. I do know that you can search an employee number and everything that employee has written up/signed off comes up. Either way if it's broke it's broke! We can't do our job if you don't do yours. I think all airline professionals know what the appropriate flight line discrepancies are.

This. If you haven't been documenting discrepancies, start because its what xjt management wants, and pilots who don't do it are wrong. They have been trying to get pilots to comply for sometime now.

 

[doh]

Comair actual occurrence. Shortly after the Management Spokestool told the Cincinnati newspaper pilots were involved in an illegal write up campaign "writing up broken coffee pots", the FA says to my captain, the coffee maker is broken. He wants nothing to do with it and tells her we are not putting it in the book. She complains to her supervisor and guess who gets disciplined? Moral of the story, management is threatening your job either way. So be very careful.

 

[Holy Shiite]

Shut your mouth, open your ears (or eyes I suppose).

Oh, sorry? Should I delete my account now? I will get right on that tough guy. Now is not the time to shut up and stick your head in the sand. Record profits are coming to the Airline Industry and a severe shortage of experienced pilots is on the way as well. Those things are huge factors in securing good contract gains. Signing long term, concessionary agreements on the eve of this long term turnaround is a huge tactical blunder.

The xjet pilots are showing some backbone and hopefully Eagle will show some leadership as well. Encouraging capitulation looks to be the Union narrative at this time and that is unfortunate. Pcl comes on here waving the union banner in his sig and calls himself a union thug? How about talking unity and strengthening the Pilot group? Apathy and malleability are not qualities that make a successful "union thug"

APA is showing some leadership now just when it is sorely needed. We should all be supportive and offer help to the regional pilots as they are on their own with minimal guidance from the mother ship.

 

[Freebrd]

Meanwhile at booger king, Mr. I ain't got no education but I best be gettin my $20 raise or else I'm gonna flip those burgers a hole lot slower because I got babies to feed gets national coverage and a high five from everyone....FML .....FT..RLA.

Various parts spelled in error on purpose for dramatical humor.
Your welcome.

You don't think pilots, especially Regional pilots, wouldn't be in a similar situation if mgt could get away with it? Everyone deserves a decent living.

 

[PCL_128]

Pcl comes on here waving the union banner in his sig and calls himself a union thug? How about talking unity and strengthening the Pilot group? Apathy and malleability are not qualities that make a successful "union thug"

Following the law is not apathy and malleability. You are clueless. Hopefully your ignorance doesn't cost you your career.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

It would be nice if the union stepped up and fought this. Don't you think that if ALPA national came out with publicity that a airline was firing guys for writing up broken airplanes the companies would be less likely to come after pilots? Too bad ALPA is too self serving to be an actiual representative of its pilots.

 

[CFIT]

It would be nice if the union stepped up and fought this. Don't you think that if ALPA national came out with publicity that a airline was firing guys for writing up broken airplanes the companies would be less likely to come after pilots? Too bad ALPA is too self serving to be an actiual representative of its pilots.

The problem is ALPA has no balls!

They just want your money and succumb to management wishes.

Look at the crap contracts approved by spineless MEC's.

ALPA has grown useless.

The regionals need a real union!

 

[Mickey Mouse]

It's quite amusing that ALPA has people called representatives. They represent nothing and no one. They certainly didn't represent the wishes of 83% of XJT pilots. Perhaps it would be beneficial if they flew the line once in a while and asked a working pilot what is an acceptable contract.

 

[Freebrd]

And now SP is the JNC Chairman, at least that's what I'm hearing, more of the same crap unfortunately. Nothing will change. We'll just end up w/ another crap TA. He was voted out as ATL Rep awhile back but managed to get another gig w/ his buddy Newie on the LASA ALPA gravy train. They all need to go, but no one else runs so they stay & get re-elected/appointed! Or appointed by their buds on the MEC!

 

[Holy Shiite]

Following the law is not apathy and malleability. You are clueless. Hopefully your ignorance doesn't cost you your career.

You should change your sig line to management puke instead of union thug.
You sound much more like a chief pilot than A union rep/volunteer!

 

[JoeMerchant]

It's quite amusing that ALPA has people called representatives. They represent nothing and no one. They certainly didn't represent the wishes of 83% of XJT pilots. Perhaps it would be beneficial if they flew the line once in a while and asked a working pilot what is an acceptable contract.

The reps. are full time line pilots. They can't even take ALPA leave for LEC meetings.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You should change your sig line to management puke instead of union thug.
You sound much more like a chief pilot than A union rep/volunteer!

He bought his job at Gulfstream, now he tries to talk tough, he is Genny Lee in a real uniform. You can take the PFTer out of the Beech, but you can't take the beech out of the PFTer.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

The problem is ALPA has no balls!

They just want your money and succumb to management wishes.

Look at the crap contracts approved by spineless MEC's.

ALPA has grown useless.

The regionals need a real union!

ALPA is pilots, so by default pilots have no balls? A real union populated by the same bunch of no loads that are there now? Sorry Mike, pilots are basically all pu$$ies, union and nonunion. When people ask me what I do I say "I move trash from trailer park to trailer park".

 

[Mickey Mouse]

ALPA is pilots, so by default pilots have no balls? A real union populated by the same bunch of no loads that are there now? Sorry Mike, pilots are basically all pu$$ies, union and nonunion. When people ask me what I do I say "I move trash from trailer park to trailer park".

and I thought I was cynical.

 

[hammer2]

It's the write thing to do!!

 

[Gr82Aviate]

It's the write thing to do!!

Write on!

 

[JustaNumber]

Following the law is not apathy and malleability. You are clueless. Hopefully your ignorance doesn't cost you your career.

Unfortunately the law is in contradiction with itself, which makes all of us criminals if we write everything up, or criminals if we fail to write everything up.

Once again I can blame government for just about everthing that is wrong with this industry (and every other industry for that matter).

 

[PBRstreetgang]

and I thought I was cynical.

Then you haven't been watching the industry for very long.