Hypothetic situation

[charter dog]

Back to the basics of yesteryear!

With no apparrent indicators of surface wind conditions such as airport wind indicators, dust, smoke, wind shadows on water surfaces, flags or the like, circling overhead will at least give an idea of the general wind direction and velocity at your circling altitude of perhaps 1,500' AGL. Keep in mind that terrain contours can cause the wind to be quite different at the surface. If none of these things provide any definitive indications of significance, it may be because there is little or no wind!

At this point, you might consider an approach to the most suitable looking runway. Consider length, width, gradient and obstructions. If during that approach, the groundspeed seems excessive, a large crab angle is required or if it seems unusually difficult to descend at a normal angle without building excessive airspeed, climb to pattern altitude, select a different landing direction and repeat as necessary. You should have a pretty good idea what's going on while still a couple hundred feet above the runway. During your flyby, if required, you may catch sight of the missing visual cues that were not visible at altitude.

Unless the need to get on the ground is urgent, there is plenty of time and no hurry. With a little practice, reading surface wind signs from the air becomes second nature and the initial landing direction selected will be correct most of the time. When it is not, the visual cues and indications during the approach should alert you to the discrepancy. We're always ready to go around if some measure of the progress of the approach isn't right, right?

So yes, it is perfectly acceptable to land at a place where the determination of wind direction and velocity is left to your own powers of observation and judgement. In reality, we do this every time we land, whether reports are provided or not.

Be careful, but be sure to enjoy the adventure!

Edited to add that Waldom posted his fine comments while I was composing mine. Apologies for any repitition!

Best,

 

[avbug]

If the runways are fairly long, is it EVER acceptable to simply land with complete disregard for the current wind conditions?

Of course. I do it all the time. Adequate runway, pick one, land. If the wind is strong, you'll already be aware of that. You can see trees, grass, water on a pond, blowing dust, the movement of shadows of clouds, the drift of your airplane, etc. If you can't tell from those things, there's not enough wind down there to worry about. If your in mountainous terrian, often landing uphill is preferable, even with a tailwind. Taking off downhill is often preferable even with a tailwind. Landing with the shorter taxi route may be preferable...you don't necessarily need to land into the wind. You may even wish to practice crosswind landings. Not a big deal.

There is also no known traffic in the pattern as requests for traffic to advise go unanswered.

Look for traffic with your eyes, not with your radio. No need to ask other traffic to report. You report, and if other traffic has something to say, they will. Never assume that other traffic reporting it's position is accurate; that could be a fatal assumption. Look. Your radio cannot spot traffic for you.

Likewise, when picking a landing runway, look. Are you feeling excessively fast on final, but your indicated airspeed is good? Perhaps it's just a high density altitude. Perhaps your airspeed indication is wrong. But perhaps you have a tailwind. You can always go around and try something else if you don't feel comfortable.

You are under no obligation to land directly into the wind, legally or otherwise. You choose what you feel is best. Wind is only one concern. You may elect to land downwind because the go-around path offers more options, whereas landing into the wind might place you in jeopardy in the event you have to go around or have a problem. It may be a one-way airstrip. In this case, you have several choices, it's your discretion. Make a choice and go with it.

 

[UA-RESURRECTED]

Avbug that is great info, thanks. Sorry I was a smart-ass in the 2-stroke thread...

 

[Iceman07]

In a similar vein...

A few weeks ago, I was up one evening in my C-170, and it was a beutiful evening, all stations (HFD, BDL, etc.) Were either calling Light and Variable or Calm. I decided to fly over to Willimantic (IJD) and do a couple of landings. I get there, and sure enough, no other traffic (not even on the ground), no unicom, and the windsock is hanging straight down, any smoke in the area is rising straight up, and there is no movement in any trees. I happen to have the AFG with me, but there is no mention of a prefered runway.

RNY 36/18 is 2797 ft. 27/9 is 4278 ft.

I'm in an airplane that can land pretty short, so what to do, what to do?

Well, I called out my intentions and landed on 9. Why? Don't know. Just threw a coin.

What would you have done?

 

[2dumb2drive]

RNY 36/18 is 2797 ft. 27/9 is 4278 ft.

I'm in an airplane that can land pretty short, so what to do, what to do?

Well, I called out my intentions and landed on 9. Why? Don't know. Just threw a coin.

What would you have done?

Good grief what did you do in those 2500 hrs, i hope this isnt puzzling for anyone else here. fly the freakin airplane! you could have done five touch and goes with a tailwind and still hand room to land a 170 on a runway that long.

 

[Iceman07]

Good grief what did you do in those 2500 hrs, i hope this isnt puzzling for anyone else here. fly the freakin airplane! you could have done five touch and goes with a tailwind and still hand room to land a 170 on a runway that long.

Man-O-Man, you pro's are an arogant lot, now, aren't you?

In answer to your question, though, about half of those 2500 hours were spent sweating on the right side of my face. The other half were wasted.

 

[A Squared]

Man-O-Man, you pro's are an arogant lot, now, aren't you?

Well, perhaps the tone of the previous poster was unwarranted, however I think most are going to understand the sentiment. Having to chose between 4 possible runway choices, all of which offer ample distance, with no wind and no unusual traffic considerations is not what could be considered a noteworthy moment in aeronautical decision making.

I too, am a bit puzzled why a pilot who claims 2500 hours would present this as something worthy of discussion. I suspect others are scratching thier heads also.

 

[Fearless Tower]

I can just see it now....Great Moments in the History of Aeronautical Decision Making......Marion Blakey presents - YOU make the call....

 

[Iceman07]

Yup, I was just being stoopid

Well, perhaps the tone of the previous poster was unwarranted, however I think most are going to understand the sentiment. Having to chose between 4 possible runway choices, all of which offer ample distance, with no wind and no unusual traffic considerations is not what could be considered a noteworthy moment in aeronautical decision making.

I too, am a bit puzzled why a pilot who claims 2500 hours would present this as something worthy of discussion. I suspect others are scratching thier heads also.

I know that there are not that many student pilots on the board, but think about it, if you had a student on a solo X-C, what would you expect him to do?

I do find it interesting that there are certain things that we do that we don't bat an eye at, but for the average student pilot, when given a choice of four runways, I bet some of them would be completely flustered by the decision.

 

[Iceman07]

This reminds me of a FAA safety seminar I attended a few weeks ago, the topic was "Emercency Landings". The presenter said, at one point, that in case of an emergency landing, don't choose a Golf-course. Put it into the trees instead. His logic was that there might be golfers on the fairway, and you don't want to put them into danger. "What?" says I. I got a choice of landing on a few hundred yards of smooth grass or plow into a bunch of trees, and you want me to choose the trees? I think not. This guy was a high-time pro (just like you guys) There was no question in his mind. There is no question in my mind.