Hydraulic Systems

[Hugh Jorgan]

Doesn't the Beaver use hand operated hydraulic pump for operating the flaps?

When she runs out of batteries, perhaps.

 

[TonyC]

Geez, give it a rest Tonyc, you might learn something if you just listen once in a while. Take a chill pill. You're really starting to sound quite petty, like you have on the other threads lately.

OK, Hoss.

You got me pegged - - I just need to chill a bit. I'm just a ignernt graduate of a publik skule in Tennuhsee. I oughrta jess sut up fer a wile.


Why doncha join me on the frunt porch? I'll pick the banjo, and you can pluck the git-tar, whydoncha?


wile yore pluckin', how cum ya dont tell me all bout them hydrawlix - - i musta mist sumthin in my grownd skule cuz i cant find the darn hand pump in that boeing 3 blower. If'n I get checkt out as one of them that cappums in that thang, and we needs ta git the geer and flaps up soze we can clime, I nede ta no hoo to tell to start pumpin, the furst offizsir or the other'n.

If i gots obsta.. obstic... obs... hills to git over, wood that make a pump ness'cary, or just cunveenyunt? no, wate, thats not the wurd - - it wuz dezirebul. yeah, dezirebul, like my better haff wut has mose uf her teeth still.

 

[English]

When she runs out of batteries, perhaps.

bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Hugh, your one liners are killin' me tonight. Been drinking that home brew again?

 

[FN FAL]

When she runs out of batteries, perhaps.

I'll call you BACK, in hour...BACK! Heheheheh.

 

[FN FAL]

OK, Hoss.

You got me pegged - - I just need to chill a bit. I'm just a ignernt graduate of a publik skule in Tennuhsee. I oughrta jess sut up fer a wile.

That river don't go to Aintry.

 

[redd]

tonyc,

Pumps are used to produce pressures that humans can't feasibly produce.

and then you quoted Avbug out of context,

"[N]o point at which a motor driven pump is necessary"?!?! I beg to differ.

You understand hydraulics and hand pumps about the same as you understand making an idle power descent in a piston engined aircraft.

There actually are hand pumps that will deliver 3000psi in a few strokes.

Whether they are installed on any aircraft you fly is a different matter. And in fact, Avbug eloquently stated ("any hydraulic system may be actuated by a man driven pump. However, there comes a point at which a man driven pump becomes very impractical."), before you made your snide comments.

Sounds like more sour grapes, you seem to have a penchant for going after people with a spirit of contention and spite, like I said before in the Evolution thread in the non-aviation section.

Why don't you try examining yourself with the same scruitiny you give me, and others, for a change?

 

[sky37d]

I think one of the variables is the speed in which the hydraulic actuation is supposed to happen. When I say this, I am thinking of they hydraulic retraction and extension of landing gear. You can do it with the hand pump, but it is much more expeditious if there is a mechanical pump to do it.


In braking systems, your car probably has a power assisted braking system, most do, and it is transparent to the users. It reduces the pedal effort necessary to slow down that mini-van full of precious cargo.

 

[TurboS7]

There are four types of lawn mowers. 1)the mechanical push type2)motor driven push type3)riding lawn mower4)bush hog pulled by a John Deere. All accomplish the same task they cut grass.

 

[TonyC]

and then you quoted Avbug out of context,

"[N]o point at which a motor driven pump is necessary"?!?!

Absolute statements, such as the above, require no context.

He restated his absolute here:

At no point does it become necessary, only very desirable.

and here:

At no point does it become necessary. Only desirable.

I'm not misquoting avbug, nor am I quoting him out of context.

You understand hydraulics and hand pumps about the same as you understand making an idle power descent in a piston engined aircraft.

Apparently you've had a bone to pick with me for quite a while, and you just got brave enough to nip at my heels when the Evidences against Evolution thread made you so mad. So be it.

You may have noticed I proclaimed no knowledge of idle power descents in a piston engined aircraft, and I asked a question that was answered. I was unaware of the shock cooling problem, and risked being ridiculed by speaking up. Of course, avbug didn't let me down on either case - - I was ridiculed, and then after he got good and ready, he answered the question - - I learned, and I'll bet there were others who were too afraid to ask the question that learned as well.

So, why does that bother you? Why would it have such a profound impact on you that you carry a grudge about it 8 months hence?

There actually are hand pumps that will deliver 3000psi in a few strokes.

That's really not the issue, is it? I did not dispute that there are pumps capable of delivering sufficient pressure. I disagree with avbug's assertion that pumps, electrical, mechanical, or otherwise, that are NOT human operated are never necessary. To refresh your memory, he began his post:

There is no point at which a motor driven pump is necessary; any hydraulic system may be actuated by a man driven pump.

(emp. added)

Hydraulic systems do nothing more than transfer work to a component, be it brake, landing gear, flap, spoiler, aileron, etc. Given enough time, my 6 year old daughter can produce enough work to actuate the ailerons on my MD-11 to hold wings level until 400 feet AGL and then begin a 30 degree left turn to avoid obstacles. I could design a human-operated pump that would turn her tiny arms into mighty machines, but she would be operating the pump for days. Unfortunately, I can't fly the airplane slow enough to wait for her to keep up. A motor driven pump, or electrically operated pump, is necessary if I want to survive the takeoff. It is not just, as avbug said, "[o]nly desirable." It is necessary.

My daughter can accomplish the work, but not in the desired timeframe. From work and time arise a concept we know as power. A single human does not have the power to operate the ailerons, spoliers, elevators, rudders, flaps, slats, and landing gear on the MD-11 in the time it takes to fly a normal takeoff and intitial climb. Engine driven hydraulic pumps have the requisite power.

Whether they are installed on any aircraft you fly is a different matter. And in fact, Avbug eloquently stated ("any hydraulic system may be actuated by a man driven pump. However, there comes a point at which a man driven pump becomes very impractical."), before you made your snide comments.

Sounds like more sour grapes, you seem to have a penchant for going after people with a spirit of contention and spite, like I said before in the Evolution thread in the non-aviation section.

There are definitely sour grapes here, but it's not between me and avbug. We have vigorously disagreed in the past, we may now, and we may in the future, but it has nothing to do with vine-ripened fruit. What we differ on at the moment is the difference between neccessary and convenient, or some other similar adjective. He does an outstanding job of articulating his thoughts - - I don't think he needs you telling me to sit down, shut up, and just listen.

Why don't you try examining yourself with the same scruitiny you give me, and others, for a change?

hmmm....

Forgive me if I've forgotten (and perhaps that's why you're angry at me) but I don't remember even speaking to you until you attacked me on the Evidences against Evolution thread. Where did I "examine [you] with ... scruitiny [sic]"?

 

[TonyC]

There are four types of lawn mowers. 1)the mechanical push type2)motor driven push type3)riding lawn mower4)bush hog pulled by a John Deere. All accomplish the same task they cut grass.

There's the mowers that have no motor at all - - you push to move it AND to move the blade(s).

There's the mowers that use a motor to turn the blade(s), but you still push it.

There's the mowers that use a motor to turn the blade(s) and propel itself along the ground.

There's the mowers that use a motor to turn the blade(s), propel itself, and carry you along.

There's the mowers that attach to something that's already moving, and they either have their own motor(s), or they pull the power off the same vehicle that they're attached to.

Finally, there's the mower that you don't have to do a thing to - - 'cuz your kid pushes it!







Oh, and there are two types of people: those that classify things into types, and those that don't.

 

[redd]

tonyc,

The reason I made these posts is that you can't get it through your thick head that your comments about skyking1976 and Avbug are inappropriate.
Even after the moderators erased two of your posts yesterday concerning Skyking 1976, you can't see it, and must post maliscious statements about someone who is no longer with us. Most of us on this forum are still greiving over the loss. I would surmise that most of the posters here would concurr with the decision of the moderators on this regard, and not with you.

I am trying to help you and wake you up. Of course you deny that you have a problem at every turn, and even disagree with the moderators and whine about it without even acknowledging you were wrong or apologizing for your breech of ettiquette and decency.

It seems when you have disagreements with people on the forum, you over-react and take things wrong, then dog them on the boards. I am simply reciprocating and immitating your behavior. The thing about Skyking was the last straw, especially since he can't defend himself against your attacks anymore, you picking on a dead guy is beyond my ability to stay quiet on the subject.

It's like you can't be objective at some point, and take things too personally. You read into Avbugs comments, he didn't ridicule you, he simply was astonished and expected a pilot such as yourself to already know about that sort of thing, he even graciously answered you after you attaked him, which you have kept up. I used to expect more out of you too, until recently. You are the one who over-reacted as you have done with Skyking.

Why not act in a christian manner with a spirit of meekness and just admit maybe the moderators and I have a point. If you had done that originally I would not have pressed the point. You make a big deal about proffessing your christian faith, why not walk the walk and talk the talk, why not act on it instead of becoming defensive and upset.

Show us that you are what you say you are.

 

[TonyC]

tonyc,

The reason I made these posts is that you can't get it through your thick head that your comments about skyking1976 and Avbug are inappropriate.
Even after the moderators erased two of your posts yesterday concerning Skyking 1976, you can't see it, and must post maliscious statements about someone who is no longer with us. Most of us on this forum are still greiving over the loss. I would surmise that most of the posters here would concurr with the decision of the moderators on this regard, and not with you.

I am trying to help you and wake you up. Of course you deny that you have a problem at every turn, and even disagree with the moderators and whine about it without even acknowledging you were wrong or apologizing for your breech of ettiquette and decency.

It seems when you have disagreements with people on the forum, you over-react and take things wrong, then dog them on the boards. I am simply reciprocating and immitating your behavior. The thing about Skyking was the last straw, especially since he can't defend himself against your attacks anymore, you picking on a dead guy is beyond my ability to stay quiet on the subject.

It's like you can't be objective at some point, and take things too personally. You read into Avbugs comments, he didn't ridicule you, he simply was astonished and expected a pilot such as yourself to already know about that sort of thing, he even graciously answered you after you attaked him, which you have kept up. I used to expect more out of you too, until recently. You are the one who over-reacted as you have done with Skyking.

Why not act in a christian manner with a spirit of meekness and just admit maybe the moderators and I have a point. If you had done that originally I would not have pressed the point. You make a big deal about proffessing your christian faith, why not walk the walk and talk the talk, why not act on it instead of becoming defensive and upset.

Show us that you are what you say you are.

I'll save this to respond when you're not so emotionally distraught. Clearly, an objective response at this time would be a waste of time.


For the record, I have attacked no one.

 

[100LL... Again!]

... and then the uplocks engage, completing the process.

 

[Uncle Sparky]

.......and again......Thanks for watching and be sure to join us next week, when we'll be discussing critical mach number, aileron buzz, area rule, feelings of inadequacy, overspeed recovery and other sub sonic phenomena!

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

All this talk of pumping is making me frisky!!