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Huge USAirways RJ Order !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Heavy Set

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2002
Posts
2,277
Hot off the press.... Includes 85 firm orders (with first delivery in the Fall) for the 70-seat Embraer 170 aircraft - looks like a mini-Airbus...

Great news for the USAirways furloughees....

Good luck to all involved!


Reuters
US Airways Places $4.3 Billion Jet Order
Monday May 12, 2:28 pm ET


NEW YORK (Reuters) - US Airways Group Inc., which recently emerged from bankruptcy, kick-started expansion of its regional jet fleet on Monday by splitting a $4.3 billion order for at least 170 regional jets between Canada's Bombardier Inc.(Toronto:BBDb.TO - News) and Brazil's Embraer SA (Sao Paolo:EMBR4.SA - News).
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The deal, which also includes options to purchase another 380 aircraft, is part of US Airways' post-Chapter 11 strategy to expand its network by using smaller regional jets to develop short- and medium-range routes, US Airways chief executive David Siegel said in a written statement.

Arlington, Virginia-based US Airways, the nation's seventh largest air carrier, emerged from bankruptcy protection at the end of March. It plans to boost its regional jet fleet, which now holds 84 planes, up to as many as 465 aircraft, and will replace its turboprop airplanes with the new jets.

Regional jets are cheaper to operate than bigger aircraft, and can pull in profits in small markets that cannot fill large planes. Many of the major U.S. airlines have said they plan to increase use of regional jets to help eventually turn their huge financial losses into profits.

US Airways, which cut the size of its jet fleet by one-third as it restructured, had previously said it planned to order 50 50-seat regional jets and 50 70-seat regional jets from either maker, with options to buy another 100 of each.

The regional jet orders come as the airline industry faces an historic downturn that has forced some of the leading air carriers to delay deliveries for large planes because there is not enough demand to fill seats.

But low-cost airline JetBlue Airways (NasdaqNM:JBLU - News), which has reported profits despite the slump, ordered 65 large planes from European maker Airbus in April, with options for 50 more.

TESTING THE EQUIPMENT

The Bombardier agreement includes firm orders for 60 CRJ-200 50-seat planes, which are scheduled to be delivered beginning in October, as well as firm orders for 25 CRJ-700 75-seat jets.

Delivery for the other part of the deal -- firm orders for 85 Embraer 170 70-seat aircraft -- will start in November, Embraer said.

US Airways is the first carrier in North America to order the Embraer 170, part of a new family of Embraer jets designed to tap the gap between 50-seat regional jets and larger jets with more than 120 seats.

The airline split its firm aircraft orders evenly between Embraer and Bombardier, but it may choose to favor one of the aircraft makers more heavily than the other if it exercises options to buy more jets.

Financing has been arranged for more than 80 percent of the planes on order at "highly competitive market rates," US Airways spokesman David Castelveter said. He declined to comment on whether the airline was given a discount on the orders, but he said the deal involved "an outstanding financial package."

Splitting the order between Embraer and Bombardier, which competed fiercely for the business, lets US Airways take delivery more quickly on the planes.

Embraer, the world's fourth biggest manufacturer of civilian aircraft, has cut its forecast for jet deliveries in 2003 twice since the start of the year due to an order cancellation from Swiss International Air Lines (Zurich:SWIn.S - News) in March and an order delay by top client ExpressJet Holdings Inc. (NYSE:XJT - News) in February.

Regional carrier Atlantic Coast Airlines asked Bombardier last month to delay deliveries of regional jets it ordered.

Embraer said the total value of its portion of the US Airways' contract is $2.1 billion, with a potential value of more than $6.2 billion if options are converted to purchases.
 
Jack A$$

Trainerjet,

Where else do you see this posted on this "Major" forum? I didn't see it. I posted it as soon as I read the story....

You have a definite attitude problem - you seem to be quite negative in a lot of your posts - have you noticed that? Go back to therapy and don't piss on our cornflakes with your lame attitude.
 
The Boyd Group comments on the E-Jet.......

Aircraft Orders Coming. (Update) US Airways' order for 85 Embraer 170/190 E-Jets, which range between 66 and 100 seats, depending on configuration, is the start of what may be a stampede to this new platform aircraft. There are also some vibrations out there that at least one other US carrier is close to making the jump into the larger Embraer product, the size and performance of which invades the mission envelope of the 737 and the A-320 series. The US Airways order for 50-seaters from Canadair is historic. Note the date well, because it's likely to mark the last big US order for small jets in the <51 seat category. The market demand cycle for these airliners is coming to a close.

Furthermore, any big orders from mega-carrier systems for the Embraer E-Jets could negatively impact future demand for Canadair 700 and 900 series. As stretched versions of the commuter-cabined 50-seat CRJ, these airliners simply don't have cabin ergonomics competitive with the Embraer products. Matter of fact, these E-Jets have coach seats over an inch wider than those on a 737, and range not too much short of transcon. If their economics work out as advertised, watch for these aircraft to be a whole lot more than just "big RJs," as the usual-suspect crowd of lightweight analysts will probably call them. These are cross-category airliners that will take market share from both existing 50-seaters as well as lower-end Boeing and Airbus products.

You heard it here first. But our fleet forecast clients heard this prediction three years ago.
 
Re: Jack A$$

Heavy Set said:
Trainerjet,

Where else do you see this posted on this "Major" forum? I didn't see it. I posted it as soon as I read the story....

You have a definite attitude problem - you seem to be quite negative in a lot of your posts - have you noticed that? Go back to therapy and don't piss on our cornflakes with your lame attitude.

Oh, I guess I was mistaken. Four times in one day on this board, but not on the "Major" forum. So sorry. :rolleyes:

I guess calling people Jack A$$ qualifies as an acceptable attitude? OK then. Hey Jack A$$, read before you post. Is that better?
 
What is the split for mainline pilots?

I'd be curious to know the split for these aircraft owners. How many go to Midatlantic (all USAirways furloughees), how many go to the other Express carriers like PSA and Piedmont? Will Mesa get any of these airplanes?

Would it be fair to assume that all of the Embraer 170s will be flown by the mainline pilots?


Anyone know the likely split?


That Embraer 170 looks like a fun aircraft to fly!
 
I wish US Air all the success in the world--but as a pax what would you rather fly on--a 737(SWA), a A320(JetBlue), or an RJ?

On the flipside I am sure there are some smaller fields that RJ's can get into that a 737 or A320 cannot.

Fly Safe
Chuck
 
To shed some light to HeavySet's question.
Below is part of the Press Release from USAir this morning.
Looks like to start....CRJ's go to PSA and the Embraers go to MidAtlantic. I am sure this will change down the road. Great that us furloughees may get to go back....but it wont be anytime soon.


"Under the Bombardier agreement, US Airways has firm orders for 60 CRJ Series 200, 50-seat single-class aircraft; and 25 CRJ Series 700, 75-seat dual-class aircraft. The 50-seat order for the CRJ Series 200 aircraft is scheduled to be delivered beginning in October 2003 to US Airways Express wholly owned subsidiary PSA Airlines. All firm order CRJ aircraft will be delivered by April 2005.

US Airways also has placed firm orders for 85 Embraer 170, 70-seat, dual class aircraft, with the first delivery scheduled for November 2003 to MidAtlantic Airways, a regional jet division of US Airways, Inc. US Airways has the option to convert the Embraer 170s to Embraer 175s with 76 seats. All Embraer 170 deliveries are to be received by September 2006.

Siegel said that these smaller jet aircraft are extremely well suited to serve the US Airways network and will fill in nicely with schedules at key times at the airline's hubs in Charlotte, N.C., Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, as well as its major East Coast operations at Boston, New York LaGuardia and Reagan Washington National."
 
On the flipside I am sure there are some smaller fields that RJ's can get into that a 737 or A320 cannot.

I could be wrong becuase I don't fly either planes, however I think the 737NG and the A320 have better performance than the RJs.

This may not belong on this thread, but I have a few questions for whoever.

1. How long will an RJ live?
2. Will RJ economics make sense ten years down the road and airlines will not be able to force wholely owned pilots to work for crap wages?
3. Will the Northeast US be able to handle the increase in flights caused by smaller aircraft?
4. What is USAir's fleet plan and how many different types of aircraft do they fly?
5. Will Mid Atlantic be used as a scare tactic in future mainline negotiation?



:confused:
 
cocknbull said:
I could be wrong becuase I don't fly either planes, however I think the 737NG and the A320 have better performance than the RJs.

This may not belong on this thread, but I have a few questions for whoever.

1. How long will an RJ live?
2. Will RJ economics make sense ten years down the road and airlines will not be able to force wholely owned pilots to work for crap wages?
3. Will the Northeast US be able to handle the increase in flights caused by smaller aircraft?
4. What is USAir's fleet plan and how many different types of aircraft do they fly?
5. Will Mid Atlantic be used as a scare tactic in future mainline negotiation?



1. ?

2. No and most likely it will only take five years for them to "not make sense."

3. Not a chance, nor will the rest of the aviation infrastructure.

4. Outsource mainline flying, too many.

5. You can count on it.

RJ's are not the answer. They are a temporary bandaid in a wounded economy. If RJ's were the answer Southwest would be all over them.
 
the erj has very bad takeoff performance...i took one from pit-iah about a month ago (it was an emb145xr...we have a bunch of these at coex....they have better performance than the regular 145s that usair is getting) and we almost couldnt use the 10000 foot runway at pit (28r)...almost had to bump passengers since we had full tanks and it was about 80 degrees....737ng and airbus do much better im sure!!!
 
What about the CRJ-700?

Thanks AJ,

So, I guess the 50-seaters go to the wholly-owned carriers like PSA - although I didn't see any mention of the Dash-8 operators - are they scheduled to get any of the jets?

The article also mentioned CRJ-700s - will MidAtlantic also get to fly the CRJ-700s as well?

Another question: how will USAirways pilots be assigned to MidAtlantic vs. the wholly-owned? Will the most senior of the furloughees be placed in MidAtlantic? Will non-furloughed pilots be able to bid the Embraer 170 (Captain slots)?

By the way, the Embraer 170 is designed to land at London City airport (for Crossair - now Swiss Airlines) with a very difficult approach and very short runway. I presume that it has great performance capabilities for getting in and out of tough airfields....
 
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Ok, brighten me up on this, but US Airways gang of wizards are thinking $4.3 billion RJs are going to keep the company from sinking into CH11 again? It doesn't make sense to essentially obtain a vehicle that only supplements the majority of US Airways flying... Case in point, they already fly mostly shorter haul routes with the exception of a few European and Carribean routes. This move is only going to dilute mainline flying. My gut feeling is that in a couple years, the RJ flying is going to peak and US Airways will be in an akward position with all of these RJ orders and an improving industry.
 
I wonder if USAir is going to put LiveTV in their RJ's, because they are going to have to compete with Song and Jetblue up and down the East Coast. The entertainment factor cannot be ignored. I can only assume that they will be using the EMB170's and CRJ70's on some longer flight segments etc (And yes, I know they will still be flying A320's and 737-300's at USAir, but where will all of these 70 seaters fly to?? ) It will be interesting to watch.

Bye Bye---General Lee:cool: :rolleyes: ;) :p
 
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From Guppie Driver...

RJ's are not the answer. They are a temporary bandaid in a wounded economy. If RJ's were the answer Southwest would be all over them.

Though Southwest is thriving during these troubled times, and I'm I'm happy for them, they still do not operate at the level in the industry as the other major airlines. To say that "if RJ's were the answer Southwest would be all over them" is not correct for Southwest. They do not need them for their smaller route structure. Southwest did recreate the wheel in aviation, but it is still on a smaller machine.
 
Sorry guys I have to blow some steam.

Let me get this straight. The big plan by some of the major airlines to recover is:

1. Downsize the workforce then ask remaining employees to work harder for less pay.

2. Buy a bunch of poorly made small cramped airplanes and pack a bunch of pist off travelers in it.

3. Split the airlines into 5 different airlines and turn each one against each other to divde and conquer labor.

Oh I see.

It's so simple. Piss off the employees that directly interact with their most important comodadie(sp) the customer. Than force that poorly treated customer into one of your $hitty @ss airlplanes three hours behind schedule becuase they have to wait for the 7,000,000 RJs to land and then give them half a pop and a cracker and tell them to Piss off. Please could someone show me where I can invest or better yet where's the freakin rental car place I'll drive.

Could someone tell me how many people USAir or whoever flew last year and how much they losts. Then could someone tell me how much money they needed to add to a each ticket to break even.

i'm not saying the RJ is bad; it certainly has a niche, but I think this plan looks weak.
 

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