How's ASAP working out at your place?

[regionaltard]

I'd be grateful for any information you'd be willing share on how the program was implemented at your carrier and how well it's conformed to your expectations since it's been in effect.

I'm especially interested in any additional safegaurds that might have been put in place to protect your crews, and whether or not those safegaurds were placed in the language of your contract.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Paul R. Smith]

ASAP works very well...much better than the old NASA form, and covers your "A" much better as well. You get protection from the time you are notified of a violation not from the time it occurred. So if 6 months go by and you get a letter informing you of investigation...you fill out an asap and boom you are covered except for the obvious intentional and tortious acts of course. After you fill out the ASAP a couple weeks later you get a thank you from you union's asap committee saying thanks for the info. Its great. its almost like FOQA for the flight crew.


BTW welcome..

Badass avatar!!!

 

[regionaltard]

ASAP works very well...much better than the old NASA form, and covers your "A" much better as well. You get protection from the time you are notified of a violation not from the time it occurred.

Thanks. I think I've got a pretty good handle on the Pilot/FAA angle; what I'm curious about is what the Company can and cannot do with the disclosures.

 

[walden]

http://www.moviewavs.com/cgi-bin/moviewavs.cgi?Full_Metal_Jacket=pukes.wav

This was overheard from management during a meeting with their line pilots

 

[CLE145CA]

ASAP works very well...much better than the old NASA form, and covers your "A" much better as well. You get protection from the time you are notified of a violation not from the time it occurred. So if 6 months go by and you get a letter informing you of investigation...you fill out an asap and boom you are covered except for the obvious intentional and tortious acts of course. After you fill out the ASAP a couple weeks later you get a thank you from you union's asap committee saying thanks for the info. Its great. its almost like FOQA for the flight crew.


BTW welcome..

Badass avatar!!!

That sounds like that is specifically for your airline. OUR ASAP program only covers you if you filed a report within 24 hours of the incident (or 72 hours if you leave a voicemail to that office saying it happened and will be filed). This is why we are told even if you are not sure FILE A REPORT! It can't hurt. It can only help.

You are out of luck if the FAA comes to you at a much later date and you never filed a report. You don't get that "Thanks for notifying me. Let me go file a report on that incident before you charge me" option. Just doesn't work like that.

 

[Boeingman]

That sounds like that is specifically for your airline. OUR ASAP program only covers you if you filed a report within 24 hours of the incident (or 72 hours if you leave a voicemail to that office saying it happened and will be filed). This is why we are told even if you are not sure FILE A REPORT! It can't hurt. It can only help.

You are out of luck if the FAA comes to you at a much later date and you never filed a report. You don't get that "Thanks for notifying me. Let me go file a report on that incident before you charge me" option. Just doesn't work like that.

We were told in recurrent that another stipulation is you may file up to 24 hours after you have been "notified" of a pending violation or LOI. Notification may consist of any means...letter, call from, FAA, Chief Pilot etc. etc.

I'm guessing you're with XJET and your ASAP mirrors ours at CAL.

 

[RVSM]

It may be different from carrier to carrier.

Ours is 24 hrs from when you become aware of the "event".
(72 if you do the voice mail thing)
The definition of "aware" may be open for debate.

 

[regionaltard]

You are out of luck if the FAA comes to you at a much later date and you never filed a report. You don't get that "Thanks for notifying me. Let me go file a report on that incident before you charge me" option. Just doesn't work like that.

Actually, it looks like there could be some wiggle room according to the FAA Advisory Circular covering ASAP, specifically the references to "become aware" and "did not know" & "could not have known."

(b) Within 24 hours of having become aware of possible noncompliance with 14 CFR in accordance with the following criteria: If a report is submitted later than the time period after the occurrence of an event stated in the MOU, the ERC will review all available information to determine whether the employee knew or should have known about the possible noncompliance with 14 CFR within that time period. If the employee did not know or could not have known about the apparent noncompliance with 14 CFR within that time period, then the report would be included in ASAP, provided the report is submitted within 24 hours of having become aware of possible noncompliance with 14 CFR, and provided all other ASAP acceptance criteria have been met. If the employee knew or should have known about the apparent noncompliance with 14 CFR, then the report will not be included in ASAP.

 

[MILF Hunter]

CLE145CA

At XJT it is when you are notified of the event, even if it is months later. Once you are notifed by safety you file at that time. The ERC will review the event. It happens all the time when ATC tapes are pulled and the crew was unaware. If you had only 24 to 72 hours to protect yourself about 90% of the crews would not be covered. What would be the point of ASAP?
I know of cases where the FAA has called an ALPA rep to notify the crew. The crew then files and is placed into the system under the protection of ASAP. The FAA wants this to work.

 

[CLE145CA]

I based my answer on discussions about this during recurrent training. There is an online document for XJT that has more about the ASAP program. In it there is the following:

Q. If I submit an ASAP Report that involves an FAR violation, what criteria must be met in order for the report to be included in the program?

A. ​

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The report must be submitted within 24 hours after the end of the flight sequence of the day of the occurrence, absent extraordinary circumstances. Make a telephone call to the ASAP Hot Line, XXX-XXX-XXXX, selection 7, box 22224 with a brief description of the event, your name, employee ID number, flight number, date and phone contact number. This will satisfy the requirement, as long as a complete report (written or electronic) is received within three days.

Now also included in that document is the following paragraph:

Criteria for Acceptance
[font=Arial,Arial]The employee must submit a report in a timely manner (24 hours) from the end of the flying day in which the pilot becomes aware of the event. Also, the report must not involve an intentional or illegal act nor involve the use of drugs or alcohol. A late report can be included if the ERC reaches consensus that all ASAP acceptance criteria have been met, even if the FAA was already aware of the possible violation and may have brought it to the attention of the employee. (In other words, if the ERC determines that the pilot could have been reasonably unaware of the event, like a mistake on the paperwork, the ERC could notify the crew of the mistake and allow them 24 hours to submit a report.
​

My answer, I admit, was only based on events you are obviously aware of at the time they happen (i.e. altitude violation, turning left instead of right, runway incursion, or other items ATC is going to catch you on right away). Under these circumstances if ATC is saying something to you about doing something "wrong" then I would think this qualifies as being aware at the time it occurs. Even if ATC says something like "don't worry about it" doesn't mean that a pilot should accept this as resolved. Maybe a supervisor is over their shoulder and wants to push the issue, but you are not informed of it. Any little hiccups like this and I file an ASAP report.

I'll claim ignorance and stupidity for not knowing they could give you a courtesy notification for something you "might not have been aware of."



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