How'd I do at SWA interview?

[benelli]

Just had an interview at SWA. Talkin to the guys, most seem to agree that having no refs called during the first week following the interview is a bad sign. Are there really any indications either way as to how well you did at the interview. Love to hear how things transpired for all you SWA guys. Anyone who interviewed recently have their refs. called? Thanks

 

[commode Air]

dont sweat it yet. Sometimes it takes them awhile to call your references up to a couple of weeks, and also there are some people that get the job that don't have there references called at all. hang in there it will be a long month or so until you find out. Good luck!

 

[CaptainBrazilia]

As Commode said, don't sweat it. SWA didn't call my refs until a week after I interviewed.

 

[Wingsweep]

Just be Honest With Yourself

Hi,
Having been both successful and unsuccessful at airline interivews, I've learned these truths: If you walked out thinking, "Hey, that was ok. I enjoyed it. I think they enjoyed me and I don't think there was a big bad boo boo," then you probably did fine. That's not to say you won't be second guessing a few answers for the next few days, but overall, if you felt good, then just trust it will be ok and don't beat yourself up worrying. Alternately, if you walked out thinking, "Well, I really boned that up," then you probably did. If that happened, you're going to feel bad for about about a week, then life goes on. Anyway, don't worry about your contacts being called--some applicants' seem to have all of their contacts called, and others don't have any of them called. HR is a black hole to those outside, and there's absolutely no way to figure out how they operate. However, I'm totally convinced they are fair, so try to relax. Cheers, and good luck!

 

['72Gremlin]

Commode,

Is it true some people get hired without their references being called?

 

[commode Air]

yes without a doubt, some of the guys are actually on this board., if they see this thread they will respond

 

['72Gremlin]

That's interesting... I didn't know that. I figured that if your references haven't been called by the DB time, you didn't have a chance. I guess that provides some hope up until the last minute.

 

[benelli]

refresh

 

[TWA Dude]

Alternately, if you walked out thinking, "Well, I really boned that up," then you probably did.

I'm pleased to be living proof that even that reasoning is faulty. I walked out of both my (successful) interviews with major airlines sure I'd blown it.

 

[OffHot]

If there is someone recently who has been hired by SWA and they haven't had their references called then I would be suprised. In 6 years I've never seen that, although anything is possible. Benelli, don't worry. The process takes time. No telling what the guy/girl who does your background check is doing this week (flying, vacation etc.). The hire board just met this week, so the next one isn't for a while. There is time. Good luck

 

[Pig]

I believe it's the rare case that someone doesn't get ref's called but still get hired. A friend that works for SWA asked his chief pilot about a guy who didn't get hired what happened, and the chief pilot asked if his ref's were called and he said no. The chief pilot simply responded "then he didn't pass the interview", implying the decision board didn't consider anything beyond that. It took 3 weeks for my ref's to get called, and the others from my interview group who got ref's called too. But there were holidays in there. From what I have heard, references for your interview group usually start getting called in the same 2 or 3 day period. They usually start ref calls 1 or 2 weeks after the interview. But I also know of a guy that got his called much later than everyone else in his group. As a rough number, about 2/3's get ref's called, and 2/3's of those get the good news call. Those who get ref's called but get the letter are usually rejected for ref's not giving very positive info. They also frequently call people other than those on your currrent contacts list or those who wrote LOR's or did internal LOR's. Sometimes current employees do internal LOR's (positive and negative) without you knowing, since the interview lists are posted in the pilot lounges.

Hope that helps

 

[benelli]

Who in the PD calls your refs. Is it the pilots that interviewed you?
Thanks

 

[OffHot]

Don't hold me to this, but I don't believe it is one of the present interviewers (maybe at one time and moved over to the role of checking out your background). I know many of them and they don't do background checks. Although it is another pilot who has a vast history of knowing what questions to ask. They do a great job. Pig's answer is pretty good at what to look for in a time line. My advice, not one I followed after I interviewed though, is to relax. If you believe the interview and the LOI went good, then your references will be called. Good luck

 

[trashhauler]

When I applied at SWA, they talked to a pilot, who was at SWA, who had been in my squadron. He wasn't a reference, but he had worked with me previously.

Do you know a lot of guys at SWA? Maybe that's the answer.

 

[Lear70]

Sometimes current employees do internal LOR's (positive and negative) without you knowing, since the interview lists are posted in the pilot lounges.

I've always wondered about that.

DISCLAIMER: THIS IS A RHETORICAL QUESTION

What kind of person would screw with someone's career unless you thought the person mentally unstable, they cheated you out of money (morally unsuitable), or they had slept with your wife/husband (wouldn't do that but, if I did, I'd understand the bad letter )? Having a personality conflict isn't enough to torpedo someone's career path.

Isn't a person who would do that the EXACT kind of person Southwest DOESN'T want working for them? Or did I misread that underlying them in "Nuts!"?

I wonder WHY Southwest is the ONLY major that allows its employees who hold a grudge for whatever reason to "black ball" a prospective employee?

 

[canyonblue]

I wonder WHY Southwest is the ONLY major that allows its employees who hold a grudge for whatever reason to "black ball" a prospective employee?

For good reason. They believe they have hired the typical "Southwest Pilot" already, so as far as future pilots being hired, they take input from that known source of information. I don't know if one letter alone would stop the inteview process, but a few sure would. 99.9% of the pilots are from the same mold, which is why this is a great place to work, you almost always fly with other pilots that you get along with great. So the reasoning there is if a current pilot at Southwest did not care for you, chances are 99.9% of the others would not either.

 

[RightBettor]

SWA is not the only airline that does that sort of thing. When I was at UAL, we were given lots of pep talks during the first few days of basic indoc. The manager of new hire training (Chris Campion) came in and discussed the recommendation process. He explained that if we wanted to recommend someone, then that'd be okay even though we were brand new with one week seniority. Additionally, if we knew someone who was applying who we would not recommend, then, by all means, come in and talk about it. Now the caveat here was that you had to have a "compelling reason" NOT to recommend someone. That is, you couldn't come in and say, "Don't hire Joe Schmoe, he's a jerk!" and expect results. But if you say, "Joe Schmoe is, in my opinion, an unprofessional, uncooperative, primadonna who has several bad marks at my former company/squadron... and I have other sources who can verify this." Then they'd likely look into it.

SWA pretty much does the same thing. I don't beleive one person can come in and shoot someone down. Especially if it is viewed as a personal grudge. But if five pilots come forward and shed light on someone's "closet skeletons," then you can rest assured that the company will take those opinions seriously.

Then again, I could have it all wrong.

 

[Yahtzee]

DISCLAIMER: This Is A Bulletin Board and RHETORICAL Questions will get replies...particulary if you don't understand the organization you may be writing about...

First, SWA isn't the only major that allows employees to give feedback on prospective employees. SWA may give that feedback more weight than other majors, but that is speculative at best.

I have several friends at FedEx who wish they knew "XX" was interviewing before being offered a job as they would have provided feedback on this individual. Unfortunately for FedEx this person is now part of their team, and will bring the same character flaws to work there. I guess changing your name multiple times has it's advantages.

Second, and more importantly, hopefully you've considered there are other factors besides the ones listed which would cause a pilot to provide less than flattering feedback on a prospective employee to a company...i.e, they have flown with the pilot and found him or her to have poor judgment, flying skills, CRM, or what they might consider a poor attitude.

SWA understands that having employees who have spent months and years with and around a prospective employee enables them to gather additonal inputs to whether or not the prospective employee would or would not make an overall positive effect on the company.

Who knows maybe SWA might ignore the feedback of just one pilot who gives less than flattering feedback and consider the case isolated. But when five, seven, or ten pilots take the time to provide inputs about someone they don't want on the team...yeah you bet....that's gonna get noticed.

Yahtz

 

[Lear70]

DISCLAIMER: This Is A Bulletin Board and RHETORICAL Questions will get replies...particulary if you don't understand the organization you may be writing about...

Nooo.... say it's not so!

First, SWA isn't the only major that allows employees to give feedback on prospective employees. SWA may give that feedback more weight than other majors, but that is speculative at best.

Probably not, they're just the only one I know of that has a formal process for it and openly declares it's part of the hiring process.

I guess changing your name multiple times has it's advantages.

So THAT'S what I should do... interesting...

Second, and more importantly, hopefully you've considered there are other factors besides the ones listed which would cause a pilot to provide less than flattering feedback on a prospective employee to a company...i.e, they have flown with the pilot and found him or her to have poor judgment, flying skills, CRM, or what they might consider a poor attitude.

Granted, and of course those would be good reasons, but I'm also fairly certain those kinds of problems would come up during the PRIA process if they've been in the Part 121 world very long, unless they've been very, very lucky during recurrent PC's / PT's / Line Checks.

I have no reason to suspect that's why I got the "bad" letter last September, I know a few people who work there and can't think of anyone I had that big of a run-in with to warrant anyone "black-balling" me, I just would hate to think that there aren't "limits" on who can submit bad reports (probationary employees would be one limitation I could see being implemented) or that just one would warrant the dismissal of your application.

Then again, there's so many qualified applicants out there that maybe "just one" would do it when there are many "perfect" applicants at the interview. Maybe I should get a Ouija board and ask...

In all seriousness, thanks for the non-flaming replies; I think that's a first here on Flightinfo.

 

[RightBettor]

Probably not, they're just the only one I know of that has a formal process for it and openly declares it's part of the hiring process.

Well, one way to spin this is that SWA is at least up front and honest about their recommendation process. I think all companies in all industries and professions have a process whereby candidates can be given a "do-not-recommend." Other companies might not come out and say it, but they do it.

And you're right, it is somewhat odd to get a civilized response on this board!

 

[Yahtzee]

I have no reason to suspect that's why I got the "bad" letter last September, I know a few people who work there and can't think of anyone I had that big of a run-in with to warrant anyone "black-balling" me, I just would hate to think that there aren't "limits" on who can submit bad reports (probationary employees would be one limitation I could see being implemented) or that just one would warrant the dismissal of your application.

Lear70,

I'm sorry to hear you received a "letter" instead of a "call", but I hope you will apply again. One of my co-workers interviewed in June, and unfortunately for him, he too got a letter. It is highly doubtful that anyone would black-ball him. Most SWA folks who know him speculate he is so quiet, he simply did not connect with the interviewers and they never got a chance to know him. Or if they did get to know him maybe they thought he was too introverted. Who knows??? He told me none of his references were called as he asked everyone he listed. Then I have another friend who had his references called, but was later turned down.

We can only speculate why y'all weren't selected. Many others received the same results and probably thought that things went well. Then what went wrong? Maybe this may help...

I have heard from various sources sometimes the interview and LOI both go well but when references "current contacts" were called the prospective employee got less than favorable reviews or maybe just lukewarm reviews. So in effect, these people may have been "black-balled" either intentionally or unintentionally (with a lukewarm review), but not from anyone at SWA...rather from a previous employer.

This is the part where you have more control than you think. Rarely do you get to pick your supervisor, but you do have to list someone on the "Current Contacts" and provide phone numbers. So what are you to do if your boss hates you and you know you will not get a favorable rating from him/her? Why even waste your time applying to another company as a pilot since you will be black-balled? Hang on. SWA understands these types of scenarios are out there, and not all supervisors are created equal. Let me point out the SWA form is titled "Current Contacts", not "Current Supervisors".

If I found myself in this scenario, I would merely choose to list someone in the organization who I know as a fair and honest person that could speak about me as a person and as pilot.

I hope my ramblings may have offered you some insight into not only what might have happened, but also something to think about should you re-apply and interview again.

Yahtz

 

[Lear70]

Oh I'm reapplying, ain't no doubt about THAT! I thought I had picked everybody carefully but who knows; like you said, there's just so many variables, and I'm sure all of us that received the letter do our share of self-recrimination and self-doubting... I'll get over it one of these days.

I too had all my references called, then the letter, but there's just no telling (I wish someone there would, but such is life). 'Till then I just keep flying, having as much fun at work and at home as possible, and waiting (not so patiently of course) until I can apply again.

Thanks again guys, once again I appreciate the helpful responses and I'll be happy to buy the Wild Turkey should I get a phone call next time.

 

[benelli]

I have had some refs called. The SWA guy sounded very excited, accord. to one of my buddies. Say all goes well with the calls prior to the DB, is the LOI the great unknown. I've heard it has very little impact on whether or not your refs get called, but does have an impact on the yea or nay decission of the DB. Word

 

[BeanFighter]

SWAnnabe on the LUV Boat

Benelli!
I too had a reference called yesterday, yea, I'm excited about the possibilities. Is it too early to speculate on the next DB date??? Anyone??? I heard from a member of the last board that the next one will be a "virtual DB" to save all involved the trip to Dallas. Cool.
Keep the faith!
Beanfighter

 

[RVR300]

Hey guys,

Calls started going out last week. I actually got to be the one to tell my buddy he got the job! How cool is that? The PD called me, then we did a conference call to my buddy.
It went like this:

"Hey bud, the PD called me and had a question about your file. I wasn't sure, so I said I'd call and ask..."
"What's the question?"
"What are you doing for the next 22 years?"


What an honor to be able to do that. What a great place to work.
I wish all of you good luck, and hope to see you out on the line.

 

[Hobiehawker]

Hey guys,

Calls started going out last week. I actually got to be the one to tell my buddy he got the job! How cool is that? The PD called me, then we did a conference call to my buddy.
It went like this:

"Hey bud, the PD called me and had a question about your file. I wasn't sure, so I said I'd call and ask..."
"What's the question?"
"What are you doing for the next 22 years?"


What an honor to be able to do that. What a great place to work.
I wish all of you good luck, and hope to see you out on the line.

I thought Chief pilots called the guys starting of friday. How did you cordinate this?

Why would they tell you instead of him first?

 

[RVR300]

Connections.

 

[TAZ MAN]

Connections.

Thats pretty vague. Please tell us more on how you did this and how you found out that your buddy got the job before anyone else.

I smell a fish.

 

[RVR300]

Taz,

No fish story. I used to work with the new hires as they came through the pipeline. My friend at the PD included me on the notification call because it was a very cool thing to do. I'm just glad I was on the ground or else I would have missed it.

 

[JTB]

Great advice!

Lear70,
I have heard from various sources sometimes the interview and LOI both go well but when references "current contacts" were called the prospective employee got less than favorable reviews or maybe just lukewarm reviews. So in effect, these people may have been "black-balled" either intentionally or unintentionally (with a lukewarm review), but not from anyone at SWA...rather from a previous employer.

This is the part where you have more control than you think. Rarely do you get to pick your supervisor, but you do have to list someone on the "Current Contacts" and provide phone numbers. So what are you to do if your boss hates you and you know you will not get a favorable rating from him/her? Why even waste your time applying to another company as a pilot since you will be black-balled? Hang on. SWA understands these types of scenarios are out there, and not all supervisors are created equal. Let me point out the SWA form is titled "Current Contacts", not "Current Supervisors".

If I found myself in this scenario, I would merely choose to list someone in the organization who I know as a fair and honest person that could speak about me as a person and as pilot.

Lear,
First off, I'm sorry you got the letter in Sep. You will be back! I believe the above advice is ABSOLUTELY HUGE! I am extremely fortunate to have gotten the good news call on Monday from SWA. But I also know of some great guys who were on the same DB who got the letter yesterday. I feel terrible for them. Two of the three had gotten their references called, yet in the end, they got the letter. Why? Who knows. But I believe that there is a difference in a good reference vs a great reference. I'm a former military guy now in the reserves. When I was filling out the current contacts list (for those who don't know, after SWA calls you for an interview, they send you an application that includes a list of folks you've had as contacts for the past five years) I remembered reading a post (maybe from cheesemo) that said that one of the biggest factors for getting a 'no' letter was for bad reference checks. So, I picked those who knew me best and would be able to articulate that over the phone to SWA should they call. Think about it...let's you list person X because he was the most senior person whom you worked for - let's also say that he's not the most charming person over the phone, at times - or worse, cannot at a moment's notice forget about his/her own worries for a few minutes to talk about you, his former employee, in an honest and absolutely postive way. Now let's say instead you list person Y, while not the most senior person, but a great person none the less who you can depend on to come through. Who would you list. I was faced with this situation, and I chose person Y.
Some may say this is reading too much into it...all I can say is that this is one aspect the applicant has control over and I believe choosing the right contacts could make a huge difference. I hope this helps.

jtb

p.s. Thanks to everyone for lending their awesome advice and words of encouragement on this board. It's definitely helped. I, too, hope I can help in the future.