How To Become Airline Pilot

[RayRay5200]

Hi, my name is Ray Wilkens, and I am a freshman in college. I have some questions on becoming an airline pilot, and I would like to know, how do i become one. I am currently majoring in business, and would like to know, whats the best thing to be majoring in, if i want to become an airline pilot. What avaition school would you recommend in the California area, and if so, would you happen to know any websites, or pilots emails, that may be able to help me out! Thank You!!

 

[Av8trxx]

Pages of Advice

A few great sites:

JetCareers.com by Doug Taylor

Tips on Becoming an Airline Pilot

A Career Where the Sky is the Limit

 

[ATRFO]

I recommend you go to http://www.jet-jobs.com. The company is called Air, Inc. Their primary service is helping pilot to become more aware and more qualified for the jobs they are looking for. For you, however, they have a great product called "The Ultimater Airline Pilot Starter Kit". It will provide all the information you need about many requirments as well as a list of almost every flight school in the United States.

Good luck.

 

[airludy]

Dude you might want to think twice about getting involved in aviation. Im thinking about getting out.

 

[Socalplt]

Ray are you currently at a four year school or a community college? Where at in Cailifornia?

As far as a major, pick anyone that you are interested in. It really doesn't matter. I received a B.S. degree in Aviation Administration as well as a A.S. in Commercial Flight back in the early-mid 90's then worked outside of Aviation for 4 years or so. You may want to pick one that will give you some skills beyond Aviation. One thing you'll definately want to do is get the four year degree.

As far as flying goes, do plenty of research. Cost can vary widely depending on where you train. It can cost anywhere from $20,000 to over $50,000 to become employable at the bottom levels in Aviation. One thing that we should make very clear to you is that there is not, never has been, nor never will be a shortage of pilots. Don't let the advertising by flight schools fool you. Another option would be the military.

Get the books that Av8trxx recommended, look at the book stores for others, and search out additional info online. If you want to be successful your primary motivation in this job should be a desire to fly. Doing it for the money will probably only lead to heartache and bad feelings.

Lastly, if you decide this is something you really want to do, don't let all the negative remarks you see on this board, or elsewhere deter you. Setbacks to ones career can happen in any industry.

 

[350DRIVER]

I don't think it really matters what you get your degree in as long as you get a four year degree. I would say that it is a smart choice on your part to get a business degree so you have something to fall back on if ever you would loose your medical at some point down the line. The "best" way to get to the flight deck at the airlines.?? I am still trying to figure that out to this day. !! : - I think alot depends on the industry and being at the right place at the right time and present day the airline industry is really struggling to recover. Fortunately by the time you will be competitive the industry should be much better and hiring will have resumed. (fingers crossed) Just my $.02

Hopefully some of the more experienced and senior airline guys who frequent this board can give you much more detailed advice and suggestions.

As for training, I went through the Continental Express Pilot Development program and was very pleased with the training. The "airline" development programs really prepare you for a 121 atmosphere. The options you have available to you are endless and alot will depend on your personal preferences and financial situation. MAPD is also one that will probably be your quickest route to a 121 operation. I have a few friends who completed the program and were hired at around 300 hours TT into the RJ and Dash however it is somewhat expensive from what I have seen.

Good luck to you on whatever you choose.
3 5 0

 

[Michael Knight]

You can also check out the many threads on this board about flying in the military. There are many ways to join up. You would serve as an Officer and a Pilot. You will gain flying experience and at the end of your service (at least 10 years) you could pursue an airline career.

Pros: No money needed for flight training, job security while in the service, fair pay, service to country, GI benefits, and generally nice aircraft.

Cons: It will take you twice as long to make it to the airlines (maybe longer), you won't fly as much as you would had you gone the civilian route, you'll move about 6 to 10 times during your first 10 years, although no money is involved you will pay in many other ways, i.e., long deployments, non-flying things that you don't want to do like the gas chamber, etc....

If this sounds like a fair tradeoff and you are willing to go into harm's way, do some research on it and call an officer recruiter, talk to your college ROTC, etc....

Good luck

 

[GuppyPuppy]

While it is true that it does not matter what major you choose for your 4-year degree, getting a degree in Aviation can help you in a not so obvious way.

The single biggest advantage in getting a degree in Aviation is all the contacts you'll make. You will build up a network of friends, faculty and professionals who can help you find employment after graduation.

I looked for work and was offered a job at L.A.B. Flying Service here in Alaska soon after graduating from college. This was, in part, due to one of my instructors knowing the owner of L.A.B. and some former classmates who were working there already. Ask most pilots and they'll tell you that they had some type of recommendation for a few of their past jobs. Of the 8 different airlines I have been offered jobs at I had internal recommendations at 5 of them.

You may want to consider majoring in a non-aviation type degree program and getting a minor in Aviation. You can do this at San Jose State University in the Bay Area. We have dozens, if not hundreds, of United pilots who are graduates of the program at SJSU. If you are looking to stay in California, SJSU is the only public school offering a 4-yr degree in Aviation. Southern Illinois University offers a 4-yr Aviation degree through an extension agreement with Mt. San Antonio College (in the LA Basin).

Good luck with your future.

Cheers!

GP

 

[bobbysamd]

Aviation degree v. a non-aviation degree

I like an Aeronautical Science degree because of the education and learning you obtain. I was an instructor at ERAU-Prescott in the late '80s-early '90s. I thought our students received great overall academics. Along with private, instrument, commercial and CFI ground school, they had to take math, physics, flight physiology, aircraft systems and technical writing, among other things. Knowledge is power in aviation. Believe me, as a career changer, if I had it to do over, I would have taken a second B.S. in Aero Science.

Really, the airlines care only that you have a B.A. or B.S. degree, in something. Maybe you can take some of the courses I wrote about above. One area in which you should definitely take courses is labor. Try to take courses in American Labor Movement or management-labor relations. Unions play a great role in the career of an airline pilot. It is vital that you understand that role.

350Driver, above, mentioned Mesa Airlines Pilot Development. I also instructed at that school. MAPD offers the flight training you need for your Commercial-Multi-Instrument, which are the basic entry-level certificates and ratings, a two-year Aviation Technology (Aeronautical Science) degree from San Juan Junior College, and (drum roll, please) the possibility of interviewing for a paying job at Mesa Airlines after graduation and with only 300 hours of flight time. The program works. San Juan JC is fully accredited, so you can probably transfer most of the credits to a four-year school. It is an intense program; therefore, I'd recommend that if you were to go that route that you complete your four-year degree first because you can probably transfer many of your credits to San Juan and have less of a workload.

In any event, do not let anyone derail you from getting a four-year college degree, in something. Without a four-year degree you'll find it very difficult, if not impossible, to realize your goal of being an airline pilot.

Good luck with your plans.

 

[FlyinBrian]

Welcome Ray,

You have definitely come to the right place. Here are some things to reflect upon, and make sure you are being 100% honest with yourself.

1.) Why do you want to be an airline pilot?
The Pay?
You've wanted to fly your whole life?
Prestige or status?
Flight Attendants?
(again, be honest with yourself)

2.) How do you envision life as an airline pilot?

Once you've thought about those things, it is time to do some research. This is a great place to do it, and the websites others have mentioned are excellent as well. Since it seems you don't know a whole lot about the industry, or the profession (that's not a dig, just an observation), You may learn that many of the commonly held beliefs about our profession are either half-truths, or totally false. Pay is a great example. A lot of folks think "airline pilots" all make over six figures. Tell that to a 1st year FO at a regional carrier who is lucky to make as much as the ticket agent. The public also fails to realize that the pilots who do make plenty of money spent years upon years upon years scraping by as flight instructors, freight haulers, and regional pilots while their families ate a lot of Top Ramen.

Once you've become a little more educated about the industry, go back to why you want to be an airline pilot, and how you originally envisioned the lifestyle of an airline pilot. Compare your original thoughts with the information that you've gathered. Think about whether or not the reason you want to be an airline pilot justifies the sacrifices that you will have to make.

One final thought: Someone recommended Air Inc's website. I'd stay away from them for awhile. They will tell you all about the pilot shortage that is coming (and has been coming for the last 20 years.) Air Inc is a business that makes money off of folks who want to be airline pilots. Of course they are going to tell you that "just around the corner, the industry is going to need pilots" If a company can make a living off of pilots who want jobs, I'd say it means that there are plenty of pilots out there who want jobs. I would also stay away from any school that promises to land you an airline job right now. They just want your $$$. A local pilot factory around here will tell you on the tour that they have a hiring agreement with American Eagle. They don't tell you that American Eagle has 284 pilots on furlough and will not be hiring anybody within the forseeable future.

Best of luck to you and KEEP ASKING QUESTIONS.

 

[tbkane]

With a business degree you can't go wrong. It will prepare you for the worst. (Which is what the industry is currently seeing) I got a degree in accounting, and am fortunate to have another career, as I am furloughed from DAL.

The best advice I can give is do something in college your good at and fly on the side, it will give you the best of both worlds.

 

[bobbysamd]

Air, Inc., aka Kit Darby

I second Brian's comments wholeheartedly about that "organization." I will say that Capt. Darby sells some excellent career-development materials. He also peddles a great number of half-truths and misinformation about the airline hiring situation. Much of that information has lulled people into believing that there is a large number of pilot jobs that go begging for want of pilots. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The best thing you can do in that regard is to learn the truth. Try running searches on "Kit Darby" and "pilot shortage" on this message board for a great cross-section of informed opinion on these issues.

I also second Brian's comments about asking questions. Just start asking anyone. Ask anyone if he/she knows any pilots and ask to be put in touch with these folks. Somewhere along the line, you'll meet professional pilots who can put you in touch with their friends. Learn about professional aviation this way before you start looking at flight training.

Once again, best of luck with your plans.

 

[Purple Haze]

Air Inc

I hate to disagree with bobbysamd -- I usally agree with everything he says (really), however...

For me, I was a 4000 hour Air Force pilot with very little insight into the industry. Between Air Inc's Airline Pilot Career Development System, their magazine, and a job fair, I was informed enough to get hired by a major.

RayRay is not ready for interview prep, but for around $30, the Air Inc mag has some fairly interesting articles, and I must recommend it -- not because it will get you a job, but because it is fun to read.

Many of the folks here have great disdain for Kit Darby and his company -- I had a very good experience and do not feel that I wasted one nickel. Note: It is true -- there is no pilot shortage.

Okay now, I'm back on bobbysamd's team!

 

[bobbysamd]

Hey, Mr. Purple . . . .

Thanks for your comments about my comments.

In your case, though, Kit could help you because you were the other kind of prime meat he likes besides neophytes. With your excellent quals to offer, i.e. 4000 hours of military flight time, all you needed was to be steered in the right direction.

Don't forget, Kit took over FAPA, which Lou Smith started to assist military pilots with getting civilian, meaning airline, jobs. The airlines have always coveted military pilots. It's just that many of them don't know where to start in dealing with separation issues and applying to airlines. Undoubtedly, FAPA helped dozens of miltary pilots "reach their career goals" (FAPA's late '80s advertising slogan).

Kit perverted FAPA by pandering to the civilian market, primarily by dangling as bait the "pilot shortage" sophistry. He attracted quite a few non-military people who wanted to fly professionally but didn't know how to go about it. In so doing, he probably became a zillionaire (although he put up a post last spring in which he said he lost his investment - go search "Kit Darby.") and made his advertisers rich. He claimed to have all the latest intel and gouge on airline interviews. However, I found that most of it was dated and useless. Kit's FAPA interview counselors were similarly ill informed.

I will agree with Purple Haze in part about Kit's magazine. I looked forward every month to reading my copy of Career Pilot. I did use one of Kit's advertisers, Mike Pappas, to obtain my type rating and another, Irv Jasinski, to prep for an interview. I got the job, perhaps in part because of that prep. Just the same, take it all with a grain of salt.

I've digressed from the point. RayRay should first finish college before training. In that regard, maybe he should consider going summers and finishing in three years. I realize that summer school is tedious but it may be worth the sacrifice to prepare for the sacrifices one makes during an aviation career.

Thanks again for your kind comments, Mr. Purple.

 

[BoDEAN]

Re: Air Inc

For me, I was a 4000 hour Air Force pilot with very little insight into the industry. Between Air Inc's Airline Pilot Career Development System, their magazine, and a job fair, I was informed enough to get hired by a major.

Where can I find more about this magazine? Is there a website or phone number to call and order it? Thanks

 

[Ty Webb]

I recommend you go to http://www.jet-jobs.com. The company is called Air, Inc. Their primary service is helping pilot to become more aware and more qualified for the jobs they are looking for.
Good luck.

Good grief, the LAST think I would ever do is point someone to Kit Darby's "Come, be a Pilot!" money-grubbing company. Get it straight. It's not a "service", it's a money-machine that has sent far too many people into this industry for all the wrong reasons.

To the AF guy with 4000 who is touting Darby's service- you didn;t need to do all that to find a job. At 4000tt Milspec time, unless you were a complete chowderhead, you should have been able to land a job with a minimum amount of dilligence.


To Ray-

My best advice to you is to get a four-year degree in something that you would like to do other than flying. FLight instruct on the side, or minor in aviation, and major in something else, and flight instruct on the side.

Becoming employed in this industry is often more a matter of timing than anything else. More times than not, guys end up entering the industry at the wrong time in the cycle, and either find themselves unable to get "in" or find themselves furloughed from their job, at a time when there are thousands of other pilots also looking for a few hundred jobs. That's when that other degree comes in handy.

When I graduated (Aviation Management) in 1990, it was a down time in the cycle, and it would be several years before I found a paying flying job. Thankfully, I had another license in another industry I could work under until hiring picked up again in 1995-1996.

Good luck. Enjoy college. Enjoy flying low and slow. The time will come in due course.

 

[BigFlyr]

Hi, my name is Ray Wilkens, and I am a freshman in college. I have some questions on becoming an airline pilot, and I would like to know, how do i become one. I am currently majoring in business, and would like to know, whats the best thing to be majoring in, if i want to become an airline pilot. What avaition school would you recommend in the California area, and if so, would you happen to know any websites, or pilots emails, that may be able to help me out! Thank You!!

Ray, when you find out what works then maybe you can post it for the rest of us.

 

[FlyinBrian]

I think we've definitely taught Ray rule numero uno:

Opinions are like @$$holes; everybody has one. (pardon the vulgarity)

When I cautioned you against Air Inc, I said "for now" Their magazine is pretty good, and they do sell good interview prep materials. But when you are a fresh information sponge, their pilot shortage rheotic is not what you need to be absorbing. You need to take a good hard look at the facts presented by folks who aren's selling you anything. When you're starting to think about interviews, consider borrowing a friend's Air Inc. Materials.

You may also want to do a search for "would you do it again" There have been some excellent conversations about whether or not people would have decided differently about getting into aviation after-the-fact. Those threads really present the good and the bad.

 

[Purple Haze]

Thanks bobbysamd: You da man

Ray, I have to agree with bobbysamd, FlyinBrian, and even Ty Webb. Air Inc is not the magic path to a flying career. I urge you to focus on school and if you have excess funds, buy flying time, not Air Inc publications. Borrowing a friend's Air Inc stuff was a great suggestion, but only for the sake of curiosity -- again: This will not tell you the secret to "making it," (there isn't one).

Just to pour gasoline on Ty's flame, if you cannot find a copy of Airline Pilot Careers Magazine anyplace else, go to http://www.jet-jobs.com/publications/alpc_mag.html

...unless you were a complete chowderhead, you should have been able to land a job with a minimum amount of dilligence.

Good luck Ray,
Purple Haze
A minimally diligent complete chowderhead (with a sweet job)

 

[350DRIVER]

I tend to agree with the above regarding Kit's little money maker and in my opinion these are not the best of times to be using deceptive marketing techniques to take advantage of the up and coming next generation of pilots... I do think however that the magazine that they publish can be somewhat informative to certain pilots who are done with training and who are employed as commercial pilots. A fellow co-worker is a member and I have looked at the magazine on a few occasions and found some of the articles regarding certain flight departments to be informative & gave "outsiders" an inside view on what the airlines are looking for in applicants. I however do not think that these magazines would be much help to lower time pilots currently in training. I would much rather suggest that you invest in AOPA since their magazine is tailored to pilots in training and they are fighting for our rights to fly. (just my $.02) Plane & Pilot and Flying are just a couple of other magazines that I found to be beneficial during my early training days.

If I was in your position I would look at the small picture (training) prior to getting lost in the "hope" of what Kit is attempting to sell. You will have plenty of time down the line to be concerned with the "airlines" but you must crawl before you attempt to walk in this industry. Once again I have absolutely nothing but praise for AOPA and would suggest that you join since this organization will probably be alot of help for you.



G O O D L U C K

3 5 0

 

[Clownpilot]

Re: Air Inc

Not trying to be funny but what major still flies the 727?

Northwest?

Package carrier?

I can't think of one.

I hate to disagree with bobbysamd -- I usally agree with everything he says (really), however...

For me, I was a 4000 hour Air Force pilot with very little insight into the industry. Between Air Inc's Airline Pilot Career Development System, their magazine, and a job fair, I was informed enough to get hired by a major.

RayRay is not ready for interview prep, but for around $30, the Air Inc mag has some fairly interesting articles, and I must recommend it -- not because it will get you a job, but because it is fun to read.

Many of the folks here have great disdain for Kit Darby and his company -- I had a very good experience and do not feel that I wasted one nickel. Note: It is true -- there is no pilot shortage.

Okay now, I'm back on bobbysamd's team!

 

[BoDEAN]

727 -- American

American Airlines has a few 727's.
One route is DTW-DFW and another route I know of is DFW-ORD.


But let's not sway off the topic =)


Hope this helps, we got a good topic going here

 

[Purple Haze]

Re: Re: Air Inc

...what major still flies the 727?

FedEx has about 140 727s

 

[Timebuilder]

Let's revisit Square One for a moment.

The vast majority of us are pilots because we love to fly. Let's proceed from the assumption that you, too, have been bitten by the aviation bug.

Ask yourself: "If I am unable to work as a pilot, what elese do I love to do?"

Now, can you get a degree and do this second thing, and make a good career out of it? Good.

Now, get that degree. If you are able to qualify (Naval and Airforce quals are high) do a couple of tours as a military aviator. You'll save a bundle. Talk to a recruiter. If you meet the requirements, you might get your college education for almost no cost.

By the time you are 30, you will be in an excellent position for an aviation career. This isn't the ONLY way. However, if I had Mr Peabody's "wayback machine", this is what I would do.

Good luck.

 

[Clownpilot]

Re: 727 -- American

Well, thanks for the help but if you read my profile you would know that I work for American. If they're still flying 727's they're doing a great job of hiding it from me. I see from another poster that Fedex flies them.

BTW, we retired our last 727 about 6 months ago. Keep pluggin.

DFW-ORD is flown by the S-80.

American Airlines has a few 727's.
One route is DTW-DFW and another route I know of is DFW-ORD.


But let's not sway off the topic =)


Hope this helps, we got a good topic going here

 

[BoDEAN]

My apologies

A year and a half ago I was an intern for American in Chicago. Last time I flew American was last winter, so I guess I need to revist O'Hare and Detroit Metro

Thanks for correcting me though

 

[p3jacobs]

Professional Pilot offers a good deal of information about small companies, and have tons of good articles...not just the "who's hiring" that airapps focuses on.

Try them at www.propilotmag.com

 

[BoDEAN]

Thanks. I'll check it out

 

[pilotmentornet]

Check this out...

Check out the PILOT MENTOR NETWORK ... we'll hook you up with a mentor that'll help you through your path to becomming a professional pilot. You can take a look at over sixty pilot profiles... the life stories of airline, corporate, and military pilots from the time that they first took interest in aviation to where they're at today.

Most people really like it.... check it out at http://www.pilotmentornetwork.com .

Alex Feher
Founder
Pilot Mentor Network
[email protected]

 

[macdaddy]

The BEST way is to go through the National Guard. You get the best training, free. Your military commitment is much shorter (the active duty commitment). Get on with a unit that flys freight or tankers. College major should be something that is a good backup career; business, engineering. Don't blow off college- get good grades and take some math and science.

Networking is important too, but once you get through military flight school it is all downhill.

Don't waste your (or your parent's) money going through some big name rip-off school like embry-riddle. The colllege degree is not worth the paper it's printed on.

Military multi-engine jet time is GOLDEN. This will allow you to jump over the regionals.

Good luck.