How to avoid the regionals...

[mhcasey]

I keep hearing people in other threads making statements along the lines of "just stay away from the regionals."

How does one go about doing that? I want to fly for the airlines eventually, so how else can I build up the time necessary? Fly commercial? Is part time commercial possible? I guess I just always thought the way things worked was roughly 1) get certifications and ratings 2) build random time while instructing 3) get on with a regional 4) get on with an airline (with some overlap in the first few steps perhaps).

Your thoughts?

 

[rickair7777]

All compensated flying is "commercial" The 1)- 4) path you described is the usual route, because it works bestest, cheapest, and fastest in most cases.

There are a couple problems skipping the regionals. You normally do the regional to get the 1000+ Turbine PIC that is usually required by the Major airlines.

1) You could try to go from CFI to corporate/135. This could be easy if you know someone who owns or operates a turbine aircraft, or you could network while doing the CFI thing and try to hook up with a co-pilot job. You will need to be a first-class hustler to get this done. The downside is that the PIC jobs at this level are not usually stepping stones, so the incumbents are usually older and tend to stick around a long time. You could spend many years as a co-pilot before getting the opportunity to fly as PIC. Also in many cases, you will fly only a few hours a month. Be aware that the customers are high-end and demanding, and people skills are crucial...you must be comfortable hanging with the beautiful people in a social setting. Also be aware that pretty young women will generally have priority for co-pilot jobs...nothing personal, but that captain would rather spend the three day layover in Vail with her...anybody who says different doesn't know corporate!

2) The other big problem is that you generally have to know somebody to get a major airline job. If your uncle is the CEO or chief pilot at a major, you're set! Otherwise you need to meet some folks. Usually the way this works is after you get your PIC time at the regional, you will get recomendations from major airline pilots who flew with you when they were at the regional. If you skip the regional, you will need to come up with a plan B to meet people.

3) Majors prefer some 121 experience, but this is not an absolute deal-breaker.

You could also go from CFI to 135 freight, moving up to larger and eventually turbine airplanes over the years. You would have to research quality-of-life and upgrade times on this. I understand that these folks have no trouble getting major airline jobs.

There is one sure fire shortcut around the regionals: Fly military fixed wing.

 

[Toobdrvr]

I went from instructing to 135 Freight (AMF). I was just lucky, but I was Flying Turbine PIC in 2 months. I had 1000 Turbine PIC in 2 years. Unfortunately, 911 happened and the industry froze me there for 6 years, but the pay/ QOL was good. When I was picked up by F9 this year, I had 6000TT, 4500 Turbine PIC. It was quite a jump to go from single-pilot freight in a metro to flying people in a big glass jet, but it was a lot of fun!

In short, yes it's possible!

 

[1973Arrow]

Not all of the regionals are 'crap' either. There are a few good ones out there (just a few). Don't whore yourself out to the lowest or bidder and keep your standards high...

 

[FN FAL]

I keep hearing people in other threads making statements along the lines of "just stay away from the regionals."

Your thoughts?

Try reading only the threads that say "just stay close to the regionals" and you wont be reading those other threads.

 

[banned username 2]

Also be aware that pretty young women will generally have priority for co-pilot jobs...nothing personal, but that captain would rather spend the three day layover in Vail with her...anybody who says different doesn't know corporate!

That is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time...

I have 10 years of Corporate experience and I say different... From your profile it looks like you don't have ANY Corporate experience...

 

[Ride High]

Sounds to me Rick is missing out Capt, but don't let the cat out of the hat. Let them all stay at the airlines and we can live the great lives we have with less complaining airline pilots

 

[RogerOver]

3) get on with a regional 4) get on with an airline...

Your thoughts?

My thoughts? I always thought regionals are airlines.

RO

 

[mhcasey]

Yes sorry I meant to type corporate.

It sounds like there are some options out there. I guess for the time being I'll just keep training and networking. Fortunately, I do have some pretty good connections out there for way in the future (Dad's been flying for American for 20+ years, good family friend may be CEO of American a few years down the road, other good family friend is in charge of hiring for SW, best friend's dad has a lot of seniority with Fedex, etc.), but I still need to get turbine time before I can take advantage of all of that.

Since I guess not everyone is opposed to the regionals, which ones tend to produce a decent quality of life/get you up to the big airlines? I guess that issue can be covered in another thread...

Thanks so far though. I'm going to give an aquaintance who's flying corporate a call and see what's going on out there, and will be sure to go that direction if he verifies the attractive copilot thing...

 

[frog_flyer]

All compensated flying is "commercial" The 1)- 4) path you described is the usual route, because it works bestest, cheapest, and fastest in most cases.

There are a couple problems skipping the regionals. You normally do the regional to get the 1000+ Turbine PIC that is usually required by the Major airlines.

1) You could try to go from CFI to corporate/135. This could be easy if you know someone who owns or operates a turbine aircraft, or you could network while doing the CFI thing and try to hook up with a co-pilot job. You will need to be a first-class hustler to get this done. The downside is that the PIC jobs at this level are not usually stepping stones, so the incumbents are usually older and tend to stick around a long time. You could spend many years as a co-pilot before getting the opportunity to fly as PIC. Also in many cases, you will fly only a few hours a month. Be aware that the customers are high-end and demanding, and people skills are crucial...you must be comfortable hanging with the beautiful people in a social setting. Also be aware that pretty young women will generally have priority for co-pilot jobs...nothing personal, but that captain would rather spend the three day layover in Vail with her...anybody who says different doesn't know corporate!

2) The other big problem is that you generally have to know somebody to get a major airline job. If your uncle is the CEO or chief pilot at a major, you're set! Otherwise you need to meet some folks. Usually the way this works is after you get your PIC time at the regional, you will get recomendations from major airline pilots who flew with you when they were at the regional. If you skip the regional, you will need to come up with a plan B to meet people.

3) Majors prefer some 121 experience, but this is not an absolute deal-breaker.

You could also go from CFI to 135 freight, moving up to larger and eventually turbine airplanes over the years. You would have to research quality-of-life and upgrade times on this. I understand that these folks have no trouble getting major airline jobs.

There is one sure fire shortcut around the regionals: Fly military fixed wing.

bestest is not a word chief

 

[H.Agenda]

Rickair wasn't too far off. There were things that I didnt quite agree with though...

Its a good thing falcon capt'n morgan and frog flyer were there to shoot him down quickly...lest we have any opinions that didnt represent the majority!!!

HAHAHA.

carry-on gentlemen.

 

[ukaviator]

Yes sorry I meant to type corporate.

It sounds like there are some options out there. I guess for the time being I'll just keep training and networking. Fortunately, I do have some pretty good connections out there for way in the future (Dad's been flying for American for 20+ years, good family friend may be CEO of American a few years down the road, other good family friend is in charge of hiring for SW, best friend's dad has a lot of seniority with Fedex, etc.), but I still need to get turbine time before I can take advantage of all of that.

Since I guess not everyone is opposed to the regionals, which ones tend to produce a decent quality of life/get you up to the big airlines? I guess that issue can be covered in another thread...

Thanks so far though. I'm going to give an aquaintance who's flying corporate a call and see what's going on out there, and will be sure to go that direction if he verifies the attractive copilot thing...

WOW - thats some impressive contacts, something us other pilots can only dream about!
Seeing as this industry is all about who you know, then what you know, i would say the first part is already covered!
So what do you want to end up doing eventually? Cargo? Corporate? Airlines?
I would speak to your 'contacts' and find out straight from the horses mouth what would look best on your resume, and go from there.
Good luck in whatever it is you choose to do

 

[mnixon]

bestest is not a word chief

Bestesest is though. Other than that, go night freight all the way. You'll be a better pilot for it.

 

[FN FAL]

Ahhh...yet even more words of wisdom...

I'm not gay, so quit trying to get in my pants.

 

[mnixon]

Ahhh...yet even more words of wisdom...

Is your point in life to try and piss off as many fellow pilots out there as possible? I guess I should rephrase as I would not want to be classified in the same group as you. Your a disgrace buddy.

 

[Bai B Nai]

Have you thought of the Air Force??? Go in, fly tankers or bombers, do your eight years, come out and go straight to FEDEX. What could be better? Wish I would have done that.

 

[mhcasey]

Yes, I've thought about the Air Force, but if I'm flying for our country, I want to be flying Uncle Sam's coolest stuff, so if I go into the Air Force or Air National Guard, I want to fly F-15's if possible. The only thing holding me back right now is the thought that I might have to go bomb mounds of sand or even worse, mounds of sand covered with women and children and a few terrorists. Don't get me wrong, terrorists piss me off, but trying to find the a-holes (I don't know the rules on this board, so everything is g-rated) half way around the world is proving to be a very interesting endeavor.

Anyway, I'm looking into it. I hear the "Don't do it unless you want to serve Uncle Sam" thing a lot. Rest assured, I do. I just don't know if Uncle Sam is making the best decisions right now.

Either way, I'm trying to get in contact with an Air National Guard recruiter (surprisingly difficult), and I'm calling up good friend's brother later this week to find out how he worked his way into the cockpit of an F-15.

 

[mcjohn]

Not all of the regionals are 'crap' either. There are a few good ones out there (just a few). Don't whore yourself out to the lowest or bidder and keep your standards high...

All I want to know is who these regionals are. Do tell!

Also, for the other dude, it shouldn't be hard to contact an ANG recruiter. What state are you in? Don't contact just your state. Talk to all your neighboring states as well. Some states have an online messaging thing where you can ask questions. Here's the response you can expect to receive when you finally find someone helpful on the other line:

"There are guys with way more military experience lined up for the flying opportunity that have been in the ANG for years. There's just no way you can jump into it without military experience. You need to sign up and start getting that military experience."

Well, don't forget we are at war. The experience an ANGuardsman may get is the grunt work in Iraq just to "get in."

Again, I must ask the other guy. Who do you consider the few good regionals?

 

[rickair7777]

That is the dumbest thing I have read in a long time...

I have 10 years of Corporate experience and I say different... From your profile it looks like you don't have ANY Corporate experience...

If your own hiring practices are even-handed in that regard, then I applaud you.

About half of my CFI friends from back-when do corporate...the female half. The guys had to go regional, whether they wanted to or not, but the girls all seemed to get snapped right up by the small local operators. I'm also an airport bum, so I know d*mn-well what goes on.

I'm not venting about that situation, but realistically, if you're just some random young guy looking at going that route, you need to understand the reality so you're not surprised down the road. My venue is SOCAL if that makes any difference.

 

[rickair7777]

bestest is not a word chief

That was a literary liberty. If you can't tell from the rest of my post, I do posses the basic language skills.

 

[mcjohn]

My venue is Western N.C. and I agree. I see very beautiful women (F/Os) on a good bit of the citations, leers, beech jets etc.....
My wife came by the other day and saw one sitting on the bench out front and got jealous because we have similar uniforms on and assumed I knew her. :laugh: