How not to land a Citation

[siucavflight]

This is wrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V06LBgfuxgA&NR

 

[seethru]

OK, now I've seen everything...

Anybody have more info on this? I'm curious if there was anybody in the plane that caused the engine to restart, or, hell, wow. Speechless.

 

[Metro752]

this is freakin awesome, thanks for posting! Danish registration.

 

[Smellycat]

Here ya go.

NTSB Identification: NYC05LA085.
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, May 15, 2005 in Atlantic City, NJ
Probable Cause Approval Date: 5/30/2006
Aircraft: Cessna 525A, registration: OY-JET
Injuries: 1 Minor, 3 Uninjured.
The pilot performed "a low pass" over the runway, and then touched down approximately 1,000 feet beyond the approach end of the 2,948-foot long runway, with a tailwind of approximately 10 knots. After touchdown, the airplane continued off the end of the runway, and subsequently impacted water. According to the Cessna 525A Landing Distance Chart, an airplane with a landing weight of 11,400 pounds required 3,000 feet of landing distance, in a no wind situation. With a 10 knot tailwind, the airplane required 3,570 feet of landing distance. The published airport diagram for the airport, was observed attached to the pilot's control column after the accident. A notation, which read, "airport closed to jet aircraft" was observed on the diagram. Additionally, the same notation, "Arpt CLOSED to jet traffic," was observed in the FAA Airport/Facility Directory. Examination of the airplane revealed no mechanical deficiencies. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's improper decision to plan a flight to a runway of insufficient length, his improper in-flight decision to land on that inadequate runway with a tailwind, and his failure to obtain the proper touchdown point. A factor in the accident was the tailwind condition.
Full narrative availableIndex for May2005 | Index of months postamble();

Pilot was 61 and had 2500 hours total, 300+ in type, and had a Private SEL MEL HELI.

___________________________________________________

PILOT ERROR you think?

 

[Learsforsale]

NTSB Identification: NYC05LA085.
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, May 15, 2005 in Atlantic City, NJ
Probable Cause Approval Date: 5/30/2006
Aircraft: Cessna 525A, registration: OY-JET
Injuries: 1 Minor, 3 Uninjured.
The pilot performed "a low pass" over the runway, and then touched down approximately 1,000 feet beyond the approach end of the 2,948-foot long runway, with a tailwind of approximately 10 knots. After touchdown, the airplane continued off the end of the runway, and subsequently impacted water. According to the Cessna 525A Landing Distance Chart, an airplane with a landing weight of 11,400 pounds required 3,000 feet of landing distance, in a no wind situation. With a 10 knot tailwind, the airplane required 3,570 feet of landing distance. The published airport diagram for the airport, was observed attached to the pilot's control column after the accident. A notation, which read, "airport closed to jet aircraft" was observed on the diagram. Additionally, the same notation, "Arpt CLOSED to jet traffic," was observed in the FAA Airport/Facility Directory. Examination of the airplane revealed no mechanical deficiencies. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's improper decision to plan a flight to a runway of insufficient length, his improper in-flight decision to land on that inadequate runway with a tailwind, and his failure to obtain the proper touchdown point. A factor in the accident was the tailwind condition.
Full narrative availableIndex for May2005 | Index of months postamble();

___________________________________________________

PILOT ERROR you think?

I always hated Bader field. I always go there with the best intentions, and I have never had a good experience there.

I cannot imagine trying to land a CJ2 there. I landed a Katana there with a slight tailwind, and I had to use the full length of the runway!

 

[Photoflight]

"LOW PASS"


way to go buddy....anyone have any theories on the engine?

 

[CLR2LAN]

I always hated Bader field. I always go there with the best intentions, and I have never had a good experience there.

I cannot imagine trying to land a CJ2 there. I landed a Katana there with a slight tailwind, and I had to use the full length of the runway!

Ah yes, good ol bader field. I love almost clipping the casino roof tops for runway 29 (i think thats the number)

 

[Jetz]

Can U say unprofessional?

This is wrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V06LBgfuxgA&NR

Keep your video cameras handy, folks. The VLJ's are coming!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

...and so he STILL decided to land??!!

A review of the FAA Airport/Facility Directory for the Northeast U.S., revealed the following notation listed in the Airport Remarks section of the Atlantic City/Bader Field Airport entry, "Arpt CLOSED to jet traffic." Additionally, runway 11 was a 2,948 foot-long, 100 foot-wide, asphalt runway.

Additionally, the airport diagram for Bader Field, was observed attached to the pilot's control column after the accident. A notation, which read, "airport closed to jet aircraft" was observed on the diagram.

According to the Cessna 525A Landing Distance Chart, an airplane with a landing weight of 11,400 pounds required 3,000 feet of landing distance, in a no wind situation. With a 10 knot tailwind, the airplane required 3,570 feet of landing distance.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Keep your video cameras handy, folks. The VLJ's are coming!

I LOL'd

Alot more where that came from



CE

 

[epic!]

what a DA

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

That was awesome. I had heard about this when it happend, but I wasn't aware that the engine restarted after everyone had evacutated. Wow.

 

[wrxpilot]

That was awesome. I had heard about this when it happend, but I wasn't aware that the engine restarted after everyone had evacutated. Wow.

I heard (ya, speculation) that the pilot evacuated the pax, restarted, and tried to make it back onto the a/p property. Makes more sense than the FADEC starting the engine(s) and throttling up.

Those gotta be some pretty stout engines though, can't imagine how much water erosion was in the turbine section after that. Anyone know the manufacturer on that model?

 

[TrafficInSight]

That was the most bizzarre thing I've ever seen.

 

[kf4amu]

I heard (ya, speculation) that the pilot evacuated the pax, restarted, and tried to make it back onto the a/p property. Makes more sense than the FADEC starting the engine(s) and throttling up.

Sounds plausible, considering the pilots poor decision making up to that point.

 

[Flysher]

i think i recognize that guys voice! I used to flyin there with students and he would always waive the landing fee for us. Awesome guy.

that jet looked like a dog treading water when he fired the engines back up.

anyone know when that happened?

 

[siucavflight]

May 15th 2005

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

I cannot see anybody being stupid enough to try to restart the plane in the water. My guess would be that Mr. Bozo the pilot didn't bother to shut anything down after he hit the water. My Guess is It flamed out when it took the first dive in the drink then the pilot left the throttles out of the cut off position and the master switch on. In theory the water filling up the hell hole in the back and covering the battery could have shorted out the system and activated the starter generator and then auto ignition took care of the rest.

I would not have thought it a real possibility, but Citations are known to ocassionally have S/G issues and the starter run continously even after shut down until the battery is disconnected. One of the quirks of the system that they train for at Flight Safety and Simuflite etc.

Then again the dude tried to land on a runway that was too short to start with, and then just to make it sporting he tried to do it downwind, so who knows what was going through his noggin!

 

[Coool Hand Luke]

Hmmm. The guy (notice the registration #) puts it in the drink, the engines flame out due to water ingestion, the guys up front bail out, throttles are left in the same position as they were during the overrun, the igniters are still on, the master is still on, seems reasonable to me....fuel+ignition source=relight. NICE.

 

[Van Hooydonk]

The only way this could have been more entertaining, would be if Caneman would have done the narration. I can hear it now, "Pretty smoooooth landing....looks like he is going to take it for a wash"

 

[siucavflight]

The only way this could have been more entertaining, would be if Caneman would have done the narration. I can hear it now, "Pretty smoooooth landing....looks like he is going to take it for a wash"

That about made me crap my pants, funniest thing I have heard all day.
"He is going to be landing with a tail wind, this should be pretty smoooooooooooooooth. Dont try this at home kids, Caneman always advocates safety."

 

[Fugawe]

I heard (ya, speculation) that the pilot evacuated the pax, restarted, and tried to make it back onto the a/p property. Makes more sense than the FADEC starting the engine(s) and throttling up.

Those gotta be some pretty stout engines though, can't imagine how much water erosion was in the turbine section after that. Anyone know the manufacturer on that model?

See the full report link, says rt throttle was bent at the idle stop. Motor was probably running at idle the whole time, hard to tell in the video.

Folks in boat don't seem to notice motor until it starts to spool up. It might have been running at idle unnoticed or ignored. I'm sure it was very confusing and hectic out there.

That the pilot didn't fully shut the motor down doesn't surprise me.


Fugawe

 

[TrafficInSight]

See the full report link, says rt throttle was bent at the idle stop. Motor was probably running at idle the whole time, hard to tell in the video.

Folks in boat don't seem to notice motor until it starts to spool up. It might have been running at idle unnoticed or ignored. I'm sure it was very confusing and hectic out there.

That the pilot didn't fully shut the motor down doesn't surprise me.


Fugawe

I don't think so. You can hear the engine spool and then light off. My guess is that it was not properly secured in the haste of evacuation and when the water started pouring in, bam.

It would be nearly impossible not to notice a jet engine running 7 feet from your boat, even at idle. They've made progress with noise... but not that much progress

 

[Fugawe]

I don't think so. You can hear the engine spool and then light off. My guess is that it was not properly secured in the haste of evacuation and when the water started pouring in, bam.

It would be nearly impossible not to notice a jet engine running 7 feet from your boat, even at idle. They've made progress with noise... but not that much progress

I hear ya', but how does a motor go from dead stop to running because water started pouring in? I admit not knowing this jet -- fuel systems electric pumps? Ignitors? Multi-spool motor?

Doesn't look like motor is down in water prior to accelerating up. Not sure why it'd accelerate except perhaps water shorted an electronic controller somewhere.

I've been in evacuations and run from jets on fire and been around hectic ops around planes. You'd be amazed at the things happening that you're not aware of. You become very focused on the task you are accomplishing in the moment. It seems unlikely to an observer that they'd not react to the engine idling...........I'd be willing to bet that it could be running at idle and they'd not appear to acknowledge it until something changed, ie, when it started accelerating.

Fugawe

 

[shamrock]

I can imagine the teaser on the evening news:

"Looking to cash in on the current hybrid automobile craze Bombardier acquires Cessna, but tragedy strikes during testing of their soon to be unveiled CitationJetSki hybrid vehicle. Stay tuned for the full story!"

If it wasn't for the gear it probably would have made it on to the step.

 

[WabiSabi]

If it wasn't for the gear it probably would have made it on to the step.

HA HA!!!:laugh: :laugh:

 

[Low Timer]

Gives an all new meaning to "Jetski".
​

 

[TrafficInSight]

I hear ya', but how does a motor go from dead stop to running because water started pouring in? I admit not knowing this jet -- fuel systems electric pumps? Ignitors? Multi-spool motor?

Doesn't look like motor is down in water prior to accelerating up. Not sure why it'd accelerate except perhaps water shorted an electronic controller somewhere.

No, but a lot of times the contactors, batteries, and other engine type equipment is in the "hellhole" between the engines... and that is in the water. My guess is that the pilot didn't secure anything in his haste to evacuate and when water hit the contactors....

Also, note that once the engine was running it started blowing a lot of water around... and it's only running at idle!

It's interesting to note that the NTSB narrative doesn't mention anything about what happened after the aircraft was in the water... evidently the "accident" was over by then!

 

[Rally]

Where is Caneman? I think I would actually get back into flying fulltime if I had caneman by my side.

 

[dseagrav]

I'm surprised all that water didn't take the horizontal stab off!