How Much should a Pilatus PC12 First Officer Get Paid

[BoilerUP]

Don't argue for the sake of argument.

Really? If you think this is "arguing for the sake of argument" you ain't seen nothin' yet

brokeflyer said there wasn't such a thing as a PC12 first officer; he didn't discern between 91 or 135 ops. I simply said there was in fact such a thing, and specified where they existed.

But you're right, the OP said Part 91 in his post and as such there's no such thing as a "legal" copilot in a Pilatus.

 

[Friend]

there is part 135 ops spec of a SIC on the PC12, there was no such statement of anything being part 91

 

[cynic]

To be clear, because the point seems in danger of being lost: you cannot log any kind of time in this airplane under part 91 as long as the other guy is logging time

You are wrong! You could have a private pilot in the front seat with a hood on logging PIC as sole manipulator of the controls with a fellow private pilot in the front seat acting as PIC safety pilot. Of course then there would be two instructors in the back, one for each student and each of those instructors is logging PIC time and instruction given.

I know when I get off an airline flight I like to say 'nice landing but you flared early' as I get off the plane. Then I log the flight as instruction given.

 

[skypine69]

I know when I get off an airline flight I like to say 'nice landing but you flared early' as I get off the plane. Then I log the flight as instruction given.

I thought I was the only one who did that!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Log whatever you want, nobody really cares.

I, for one, wouldn't want much SIC time in a single engine airplane (lol) but theres nothing wrong with getting some experience in anything - especially when you have experience in nothing!

Just be able to back up (with knowledge and skills) what you present yourself as! - anything less is painfully obvious and will kill your credibility.

I would have nothing wrong with a guy who, when very new to this business, said he rode right seat in a Pilatus and was not sure how to log it so he just did...and that he learned a lot doing it and eventually got to move on. No guarantee you wouldn't get your balls busted pretty bad later on, but whatever..

Not everyone can be a GULFSTREAM SENIOR INTERNATIONAL TRAINING CAPTAIN at age 19 like me, so you just gotta play the cards you're dealt with.

G200

 

[surveypilot]

If you look at post 1 and 3, you will see that the original poster is referring to AirSprint. AirSprint is a Canadian fractional company PC-12's and Citation XL/S's. They have applied for part 91k certification, and will be starting operations in Scottsdale with PC-12's with two pilot crews. They would be a direct competitor to Plane Sense. I am not arguing the value of legally logged SIC in a PC-12, but I did want the discussion to be based on the correct scenario.

 

[wolfpackpilot]

HI

I wanted to ask if anyone know what the current salary would be for a first officer on the Pilatus PC12 for a new start up part 91 Company. Is 50 grand around the ball park figure

Quit taking the cheese you mice....

This is flame bait!

 

[svcta]

You are wrong! You could have a private pilot in the front seat with a hood on logging PIC as sole manipulator of the controls with a fellow private pilot in the front seat acting as PIC safety pilot. Of course then there would be two instructors in the back, one for each student and each of those instructors is logging PIC time and instruction given.

I know when I get off an airline flight I like to say 'nice landing but you flared early' as I get off the plane. Then I log the flight as instruction given.

Ahem, if you notice in the post of mine that you quoted you overlooked the part where I mentioned the "safety pilot caveats", etc.

Not to get all bent out of shape, but the original post was quite clear: start-up part 91 company. Things get out of hand here quickly with everyone trying to show how much they know about "ops specs" for some reason. The original post clearly indicates that such a situation wasn't in play. I was simply trying to help what might be a newbie from getting hired for one of those jobs that isn't really job. Now, I will stop.

 

[BoilerUP]

Not to get all bent out of shape, but the original post was quite clear: start-up part 91 company. Things get out of hand here quickly with everyone trying to show how much they know about "ops specs" for some reason. The original post clearly indicates that such a situation wasn't in play. I was simply trying to help what might be a newbie from getting hired for one of those jobs that isn't really job. Now, I will stop.

As another poster has already said...look at Post #3, made by the original poster.

The "start up part 91" company the original poster mentions is a fractional operator. That the OP omitted the "K" from Part 91 can be chalked up to simply not knowing the difference between 91 and 91K operations.

Planesense is a 91K fractional operator of PC12s that has SICs under their OpSpecs...so actually a discussion of OpSpecs allowing for SICs is pertinent to the OP's question.

But by all means, please continue to not get bent out of shape by folks "trying to show how much they know"...

 

[Friend]

Well, let's go look at the FAR, shall we? 61.51(f):
(f) Logging second-in-command flight time. A person may log second-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person:
(1) Is qualified in accordance with the second-in-command requirements of § 61.55 of this part, and occupies a crewmember station in an aircraft that requires more than one pilot by the aircraft's type certificate; or
(2) Holds the appropriate category, class, and instrument rating (if an instrument rating is required for the flight) for the aircraft being flown, and more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is being conducted.

So, if the airplane requires two pilots on it's TC, and you're qualified in accordance with 61.55, you can log the time and SIC. I think (but can't quote a reg) you can log the X/C time too.

If the airplane DOESN'T require two pilots, but the 91K regs or the OPSpecs do, then you can also log SIC time.

A type rating isn't required for SIC time, as I read the regs, if the flight is domestic in the US.

 

[Friend]

It's a fractional program under FAR 91 Subpart "K", and yes they have "op-specs" like a Part 135 program.

91.1001 Applicability


(8) Fractional ownership program management services or program management services mean administrative and aviation support services furnished in accordance with the applicable requirements of this subpart or provided by the program manager on behalf of the fractional owners, including, but not limited to, the—
(i) Establishment and implementation of program safety guidelines;
(ii) Employment, furnishing, or contracting of pilots and other crewmembers;
(iii) Training and qualification of pilots and other crewmembers and personnel;
(iv) Scheduling and coordination of the program aircraft and crews;
(v) Maintenance of program aircraft;
(vi) Satisfaction of recordkeeping requirements;
(vii) Development and use of a program operations manual and procedures; and
(viii) Application for and maintenance of management specifications and other authorizations and approvals.

 

[svcta]

So, if the airplane requires two pilots on it's TC, and you're qualified in accordance with 61.55, you can log the time and SIC.

If the airplane DOESN'T require two pilots, but the 91K regs or the OPSpecs do, then you can also log SIC time.

A type rating isn't required for SIC time, as I read the regs, if the flight is domestic in the US.

Well, of course.

Forgive me, but I have no idea what airsprint is, and it was only described as a, um, "certified sic program" or some such, which sounded fishy. I'll admit that I worked under that assumption. I will stop now.

 

[say again]

Ops specs supersede the general FAR's. If an SIC is required per op specs, then you are legally able to log that time.

 

[ackattacker]

I'm not convinced that 91K get actual op-specs... is that true? The reg quoted above is a bit nebulous "program operations manuals and procedures" sounds different from FAA OPerations SPECifications.

 

[7on7Off]

I'm not convinced that 91K get actual op-specs... is that true?

No, they have M-Specs. Ops-specs are 121/135

 

[CorpCaptain]

We have a PC-12 on our certificate in the southeast US. Operates both 91/135. OpSpec's call for 2 pilots only when flying a active 135 leg. We pay a contract FO $150/day and the owner covers the training. I think that is more than fair and so does he.

 

[Chubaka]

You will get nothing and like it!

 

[FO4life]

Gas money and a bag of peanuts.

Wow you get gas money!!!!!!

 

[Amish RakeFight]

For a bonus, go after the daughters snatch.