How much money is Virgin losing anyway?

[flyipilot]

Here are some loads through the end of 07



LAX-IAD
38.6%* october
49.9% november
55.2% december

LAX-JFK
85.8%* august
55.8% september
61.3% october
68.5% november
74.0% december

LAX-SFO
66.3% august
54.7% september
59.3% october
58.7% november
54.1% december

SFO-IAD
48.8%* september
66.4% october
66.7% november
63.1% december

SFO-JFK
81.9% august
51.6% september
57.3% october
61.8% november
65.6% december

SFO-LAS
48.0% october
52.6% november
55.1% december

These numbers are horrifying! According to the DOT (FAA) the ave US airlines had 80.5 load factors and they are loosing billions! You at this point are really a public service company with some nice lights in back. If I were Branson and his crazy banks..(banks have been known to be crazy these days)...I would be panicked.

 

[HA25]

These numbers are horrifying! According to the DOT (FAA) the ave US airlines had 80.5 load factors and they are loosing billions! You at this point are really a public service company with some nice lights in back. If I were Branson and his crazy banks..(banks have been known to be crazy these days)...I would be panicked.

the difference between the loads you see there and the loads on most of those airlines is that they have deals with all the priceline.com type places to unload excess capacity at very low yield... VA just signed a deal this week for the same, that differential will quickly be bridged.. load factor isn't king, yield is..

 

[chperplt]

Not what I've seen.. travelled on two flights in the past few days and both were full.. SFO-SEA and SFO-LAX.

More over, be worried about any of your passengers having a choice between you and VA.. I can see some willing to pay more for the experience, it was like nothing I've seen in a domestic airline. Not since I flew on Asiana or Singapore did I get such good service.

VA won't be taking any of my passengers....

Unlike many here, I don't wish anything negative against VA. I know quite a few people at VA and from what they say, the loads still suck... your two flights excluded.

 

[flyipilot]

Not what I've seen.. travelled on two flights in the past few days and both were full.. SFO-SEA and SFO-LAX.

More over, be worried about any of your passengers having a choice between you and VA.. I can see some willing to pay more for the experience, it was like nothing I've seen in a domestic airline. Not since I flew on Asiana or Singapore did I get such good service.

It will never matter if their flights are 100% full. They will NEVER make a profit at the current oil prices and what they charge. Look on the VA website right now...(i will wait)........ok.....notice the awesome summer sale they are having...At those fares, no makes money. So, why sell even one seat at that rate? I thought people loved them, so, why do they have to lower the fare to entice travelers to fly them? It is simple, americans to not care about lights, sweet F/A's and glitter..(well not the ones paying 116.00 SFO-JFK.) They will pay the cheapest fares. So, we the airlines would just raise them, they would make some money. But, someone has to always start a deadly fare war which is said to be great for the consumer. I agree but, it will cost us all in the long run.

 

[HA25]

VA recently signed a deal with priceline.com... this is the tool (along with a few others) that fills those extra seats.. the 50-60% is what most airlines sell, and the remaining 20% are all brokered thru the low yield sites.. WN is on of a few that doesn't do this, and this is why their load factors in general are lower, but their yields are still good.

 

[HA25]

VA won't be taking any of my passengers....

I'm sorry, that wasn't meant as a dig on your carrier.. I was just speaking in general.. the experience is a cut above the rest.

 

[skiandsurf]

Not what I've seen.. travelled on two flights in the past few days and both were full.. SFO-SEA and SFO-LAX.

More over, be worried about any of your passengers having a choice between you and VA.. I can see some willing to pay more for the experience, it was like nothing I've seen in a domestic airline. Not since I flew on Asiana or Singapore did I get such good service.

Didnt you used to work for (and talk very highly of) Skybus?

I guess any flight experience would seem great after that experience.

 

[HA25]

Didnt you used to work for (and talk very highly of) Skybus?

I guess any flight experience would seem great after that experience.

to answer your smart ass question.. YES, I did.. and I have nothing but praise for the guys that I worked with there, and it very was fun while it lasted.. as for riding on them, only did it twice and from what I could see the pax were quite happy considering the price they paid, quite similar to Southwest, but you could actually buy food and the F/As were a lot hotter (on Skybus).

As for my prior experience in reference to the recent Virgin flights.. I've flown Business class on Singapore, Emirates, BA, Air France, Alitalia, Delta, and Asiana... I've also flown coach on Cathy Pacific, and Delta (International), as well as BA coach.. all of them to some degree or another were an order of magnitude better than anything domestic US I've been on. Virgin on the other hand was comparable to any of them.

Hope that helps..

 

[skiandsurf]

to answer your smart ass question.. YES, I did.. and I have nothing but praise for the guys that I worked with there, and it very was fun while it lasted.. as for riding on them, only did it twice and from what I could see the pax were quite happy considering the price they paid, quite similar to Southwest, but you could actually buy food.

As for my prior experience in reference to the recent Virgin flights.. I've flown Business class on Singapore, Emirates, BA, Air France, Alitalia, Delta, and Asiana... I've also flown coach on Cathy Pacific, and Delta (International), as well as BA coach.. all of them to some degree or another were an order of magnitude better than anything domestic US I've been on. Virgin on the other hand was comparable to any of them.

Hope that helps..

Sorry that you and lots of friends lost their jobs. Have you had any luck on the job search?

 

[HA25]

Sorry that you and lots of friends lost their jobs. Have you had any luck on the job search?

If my idea of success was making $16000 a year working 10 weeks on 4 weeks off in India as an A320 CA, yes.. if it's to work in the US for a reasonable wage.. no.. I really don't want to go overseas.. some love it, but having flown over seas, I'm sure it's not for me.


I've interviewed with a couple of places, have an interview with Emirates and EVA set up, but to be honest the only one I really want to work for is VA.. I just love the start up culture and the smallish nature of that phase.. plus, I really think they've got a good future because unlike the people behind SX, they're trying to build an airline, not an IPO!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

That's not what I just heard from one of your senior check airman. He said system wide loads are still in the toilet.

Heard it from a "senior Check Airman" did you? It is nice to have solid inside intel like that. If you hear anything else, be sure to let us know. I only get to talk to junior check airman and they don't get the same inside scoop. I am glad we have guys here on FI that talk to "senior check airman" They mustget their info from Ips, maybe on occasion assistant chief pilots.

This stuff cracks me up.

 

[chperplt]

Heard it from a "senior Check Airman" did you? It is nice to have solid inside intel like that. If you hear anything else, be sure to let us know. I only get to talk to junior check airman and they don't get the same inside scoop. I am glad we have guys here on FI that talk to "senior check airman" They mustget their info from Ips, maybe on occasion assistant chief pilots.

This stuff cracks me up.

Hey jerkoff... I never said what I heard was fact.. I simply said that's what I heard. I've also talked to a number of gate agents that support your Vegas flights and they said the Vegas loads suck too. I put the two together and figured it was correct. But heck, why would they know... they only board and deplane your aircraft daily.

I know it sucks when people talk smack about your company. A few weeks ago my company was reported to be about to furlough by an FI expert. I may not have a clue just like the other guy... For your sake, I hope not.

 

[skiandsurf]

If my idea of success was making $16000 a year working 10 weeks on 4 weeks off in India as an A320 CA, yes.. if it's to work in the US for a reasonable wage.. no.. I really don't want to go overseas.. some love it, but having flown over seas, I'm sure it's not for me.


I've interviewed with a couple of places, have an interview with Emirates and EVA set up, but to be honest the only one I really want to work for is VA.. I just love the start up culture and the smallish nature of that phase.. plus, I really think they've got a good future because unlike the people behind SX, they're trying to build an airline, not an IPO!

I too could have gone to India or Kazikstan, but I chose a safer route. At least one of my former co-workers that went there got divorced within the first 3 months. Talking to a friend at Emirates, he likes it. He and his wife moved over there, and they seem happy. They do come back to the states twice a year.

As far as flying for another start-up.....havent you learned. While you were in CMH, you should have talked to the folks at Netjets. Now that you are looking in the Bay Area, go talk to XOJet.

Good luck to you, but drink the kool-aid with caution.

 

[HA25]

I too could have gone to India or Kazikstan, but I chose a safer route. At least one of my former co-workers that went there got divorced within the first 3 months. Talking to a friend at Emirates, he likes it. He and his wife moved over there, and they seem happy. They do come back to the states twice a year.

As far as flying for another start-up.....havent you learned. While you were in CMH, you should have talked to the folks at Netjets. Now that you are looking in the Bay Area, go talk to XOJet.

Good luck to you, but drink the kool-aid with caution.

XO is a start up.. and I have lots of friends there, but I did the Citation X FAR 135 thing for 4 years, and it's just not a career for me, it would only be a job.. I just didn't enjoy it.

I love start ups, and the risk is worth it for me... risk after all = return..

thanks for the advise anyway.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Hey jerkoff... I never said what I heard was fact.. I simply said that's what I heard. I've also talked to a number of gate agents that support your Vegas flights and they said the Vegas loads suck too. I put the two together and figured it was correct. But heck, why would they know... they only board and deplane your aircraft daily.

I know it sucks when people talk smack about your company. A few weeks ago my company was reported to be about to furlough by an FI expert. I may not have a clue just like the other guy... For your sake, I hope not.

Sensitive. You are the one who actually wrote " I heard it from a "senior check airman". I'm sure you have been around long enough to see the humor in your own statement.

I don't care what you heard, nor do I doubt the validity of the statement regardless of who said it. I was poking fun at at the decision to quote your source as "a senior check airman".

I found it amusing. Sorry that hurt feeling and even more sorry that you can't find the lighter side of these boards as entertaining as I do.

Hugs.

Pogue

 

[Mooseflyer]

If my idea of success was making $16000 a year working 10 weeks on 4 weeks off in India as an A320 CA, yes..

I'm assuming (hoping) you forgot a zero in the above figure.

 

[HA25]

I'm assuming (hoping) you forgot a zero in the above figure.

that is per month, with housing and airlines to and from the US included..

 

[chperplt]

Sensitive. You are the one who actually wrote " I heard it from a "senior check airman". I'm sure you have been around long enough to see the humor in your own statement.

I don't care what you heard, nor do I doubt the validity of the statement regardless of who said it. I was poking fun at at the decision to quote your source as "a senior check airman".

I found it amusing. Sorry that hurt feeling and even more sorry that you can't find the lighter side of these boards as entertaining as I do.

Hugs.

Pogue

Sure.. The difference between a "senior" check airman and a not so senior check airman is 2 or 3 days..

The points are still valid.

 

[maxpayrollcruz]

Sure.. The difference between a "senior" check airman and a not so senior check airman is 2 or 3 days..

The points are still valid.

Nicely put sir.

 

[icebird757]

Involving Luftansa and Jetblue...I don't think we gave up any control...the have just a 19% cut and one seat on the board...

They don't call the shots...but i'm sure there are/were some terms agreed on.

I see it as a good thing. LH has made a lot of money over the years and the have a great global network.