How long before we see an LCC bid on an International Route

[shon7]

How long before we see an LCC bid on flying an international route. Yes their operating structure for those routes would have to be amended (i.e. turnaround times, no frills etc.) but there is more money to be made on the Intl. Routes. I can see the likes of Jblu flying a (trans-atlantic/ transpacific route). The question is how soon?

 

[English]

Already happening. Aloha is an LCC, and flys international routes.

 

[sandman2122]

Jetblue flys to the Puerto Rico and Southwest flys to Lubbock.

 

[Hugh Jorgan]

Already happening. Aloha is an LCC, and flys international routes.

Aloha, a low cost carrier????
I think not.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Umm, isn't that what Ryan and Easy already do ? A few more in different parts of the world; Tiger and Valuair starting up in Singapore ( where, by definition, all flights are international ), Lion Air in Indonesia, Air Arabia in Sharjah, Pacific Blue in New Zealand, and a few more elsewhere.

I'm guessing you meant LCC's in the USA though. As previously mentioned JetBlue already does some. It would be cool if they bought A330s and started going across the Atlantic. Then my friend Dizel would be a happy man


Typhoonpilot

 

[~~~^~~~]

Grand Bahama Island is in the US, I never knew ~?~

AirTran has been doing Grand Bahama Island for a while now.

Rumors are that Airtran has enquired about ETOPS certification on the new 737's so they can go to LGW, CDG, ZRH, DUB, and FLR. They have to bump non-revs to go to FUK, HKG and JNB. Delta is responding with an RJ 20 with internal tanks rigged by Air America - after all if they can get a C310 to fly from Columbia to Scranton, PA with a full load, just think of what they can do with an RJ!

 

[MDP727]

ATA will be the first. We already dispatch aircraft to more destinations yearly than any other airline. Our widebody crews are already experienced heavily in world wide operations. Our management is currently in negotiations with some european airports.

 

[Tristar]

Actually, we've already done it. A few years (5?) back we had seasonal service to Ireland (I should have saved the timetable). For that matter, many of our narrow-body crews are well experienced, as they spent time on the Mighty L-1011 doing international.

As for the other carriers - I don't really know, but I think it will take a while for them to gain approval for RVSM, MNPS, ect. on their ops specs. They've probably already got Class II nav, but it's a bit of a different ball game over the pond and in the rest of the world. No offense to the General, but does anyone else remember the diffculties Delta had when they started trans-Atlantic? It's a big step up from domestic - no one is watching out for you, and _everyone_ else is counting on you to get it all right, the first time, everytime. I'm sure there will eventually be several LCC's doing it, it's certainly not an insurmountable hill, but it's not something you just turn on overnight.

 

[klhoard]

Southwest International. . .

. . .<snip>. . .and Southwest flys to Lubbock.

I almost fell out of my chair laughing!!!!

 

[EAP]

I'm not sure if you meant "real" international or a little bit of border hopping with a small jet. But real international long haul (like London, Moscow, Tokyo, etc.) has already been done by LCC's, and a long time ago. There are plenty of operators still doing it, too.
Virgin Atlantic started service as a pure low cost carrier that took British Airways on with a fleet of older 747's. They still operate as a low cost carrier option for a mixed service, but have stepped up to the plate with high cost options too as international travel has proved to be quite different from domestic fare demographics. Japan Air Lines has a subsidiary called Jalways that in fact is a part of JAL but is their "low fare leisure" airline operating 747-200 and -300's and is one of their most profitable sectors. Average stage length about 6 hours. And then there are countless others doing it right now. One of the original real international LCC's was Laker Air started by Freddie Laker (L-1011's) after de-reg.

 

[Saabslime]

AWA just started Costa Rica I believe and rumors about getting ETOPS for some additional 757's to go who knows where.

 

[rnobson]

Freddie had Dc-10's actually

 

[SpeedBird]

duplicate response removed

 

[TWA Dude]

Not just a rumor, but AWA is officially working towards ETOPS certification to be acheived in 10-16 months (source: CEO Doug Parker). Where we'll go and with which airplane is still just a rumor. Official rumors: 767s, more 757s, A330s, flying to HI and/or South America. Enjoy.

(AWA) Dude

 

[PHX767]

That rumor has been going around AWA since I was there back in 99. Of the 13 757's, only about 6 (I believe) have the ER equipment (HDG and different IRS power heirarchy).

 

[G4G5]

Never.

From an LCC stand point flying anything other then transcons does not fit into their profile. It's extremely dificult to get maximum utilization from an aircraft and crew with long haul international flying. Think about it. If an LCC was to fly to Hawaii they would either have to add a fleet type (not happening) or fly that route with the 737 or A320. It cuts into their current utilzation formulas for the crew and aircraft. Not to mention the yeilds on the Hawaii routes are some of the worst in the industry (everyone saves their FF pts for Hawaii). Long haul flying to international destinations does not gurantee high yeilds. It also opens up the LCC to competition from another nations gov subsidized flag carrier. Alitalia could afford to keep pumping money into a losing route all day long, an LCC can't.

 

[canyonblue]

And why would Southwest do such a stupid thing to have an airline within an airline? Oh, nevermind.

 

[P38JLightning]

Only a matter of time

It will happen. I could see AT doing it (although not in the 737-700) as well as JB (larger Airbus) ATA and Virgin America, even if they massage the law to make it look like its only a "Code Share" with Virgin Atlantic.

There is big money in international. Don't expect the airlines who are oh so good at cherry picking to leave that on the table forever. Once their networks are more complete they will basicaly have two choices, compete directly with eachother for all future growth, or go after the major's gravy train.

Is it even a debate as to what they will do?

 

[Freight Dog]

Already happening. Aloha is an LCC, and flys international routes.

Ahhh... nope.

Nothing LCC about our fares, service, or frequency.

 

[MDP727]

G4G5,

ATA already flies to Hawaii, sched service from, Sea, Lax, Sfo, and Phx.