How far back will AA furloughs go

[bottomfeeder]

Just wondering what year the furloughs will go back to if they axe the 2500 they're talking about?

 

[TWA Dude]

1988 for ex-TWA and 1999 for aboriginal AA.

 

[flx757]

I think the Reno pilots all have 2/1999 hire dates with sen #s in the low 9000s. Do the furloughs go back to them? Just curious because the latest ALPA "fast read" seems to indicate they will be among the first to go. Here's what they have to say on the subject:

"The 2,500 furloughs will come from the bottom of the seniority list so former TWA and Reno pilots and Eagle pilots who transferred to the larger carrier will be the first to feel the cuts."

 

[eaglefly]

The last group of Eagle pilots that actually flowed all had Sept. '99 hire dates.

If the furloughs were to reach to mid '99, you'd still only be talking about 20 or so Eagle flow-thru's.

 

[TWA Dude]

Funny how ALPA would suddenly be so concerned about our plight when they did nothing for us during the integration talks.

 

[av8instyle]

Funny how ALPA would suddenly be so concerned about our plight when they did nothing for us during the integration talks.

Did they ACTUALLY do nothing or did they try and were unable?
It really bugs me that when airline management screws up and can't make money, and things don't go quite the way the pilots want, they go right to the throat of ALPA. But when the big paychecks and good/safe schedule arrive there are several pilots who don't recognize the union's accomplishments.
I feel bad about what happened to TWA, don't get me wrong, and believe me, I defended your position to the one token AA guy in our squadron, but I think that you should place your blame more towards your poor management than towards the people that genuinely cared about your career.

 

[DIAMONDDD]

Did they ACTUALLY do nothing or did they try and were unable?

I flew with one of the guys that was on the MEC that met with ALPA national. He was pretty angry that National didn't really do anything to help. He cited that national, while the integration was going on, was trying to woo the American pilots to join ALPA and that CAL had just joined. So......he felt that if National really went at it to try and help the TWA pilots, it was a shoe in that the American pilots would not join. Plus, with CAL just joining, there would be a net gain in membership so....sorry for your luck TWA.

 

[TWA Dude]

I defended your position to the one token AA guy in our squadron, but I think that you should place your blame more towards your poor management than towards the people that genuinely cared about your career.

Av8instyle:

Firstly, thank you for your support. Second, it's not an issue of assigning blame. How we got to this position is history. But as my colleague Diamonddd pointed out ALPA National focused on the $$ and not the pilots of TWA. From a purely business point of view they did the intelligent thing. TWA represented lost dues and AA represented the possibility of over 10,000 new members. Our MEC told us of how the ALPA Executive Council was not very sympathetic to our cause (gee, I wonder why?) and how Woerth pulled several double-crosses against us.

It's certainly possible that things could've turned out the same anyway, but if ALPA had rallied all the troops to protect us from the infidels we could've gained at least some leverage. I doubt there's even one ex-TWA pilot who feels that ALPA fought for its own, and there's many who feel they actively worked against us.

ALPA is still the best union for professional pilots for many reasons. One can't force another to be sympathetic, but in light of how the mighty are falling these days I hope the ALPA leadership thinks more about how it treats its own.

 

[Counselair]

Well said TWA Dude!

Counselair

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Diamonddd,
I seem to recognize those airline CEO's you are using in your avatar,I am having trouble remembering their names though. Anybody know which one is Carty and who the other one is, maybe Mullin?
BAAAHAAA
PBR

 

[GuppyPuppy]

But as my colleague Diamonddd pointed out ALPA National focused on the $$ and not the pilots of TWA. From a purely business point of view they did the intelligent thing. TWA represented lost dues and AA represented the possibility of over 10,000 new members. Our MEC told us of how the ALPA Executive Council was not very sympathetic to our cause (gee, I wonder why?) and how Woerth pulled several double-crosses against us

Yup, its all about money. As was seen in the case regarding Emery's pilots, that is all that ALPO cares about....CA$H.

GP

 

[ultrarunner]

I feel bad about what happened to TWA, don't get me wrong[/B]

Yeah, just terrible what happened. Just think, AA could have just waited around for a TWA liquidation! The picked the pilots they wanted...OFF THE STREET. Yeah, just terrible.

 

[TWA Dude]

Just think, AA could have just waited around for a TWA liquidation!

You're right; they could've. So why didn't they? Was it out of the goodness of their hearts? Or was it perhaps a business decision (good or bad)? If you're angry at the world then at least try to aim your anger at the guilty parties.

 

[ultrarunner]

I'm not angry at anyone. I'm just stating a fact. I think everyone one of the TWA pilots is big-time lucky. Even the ones that are getting furloughed. Had AA not bought the whole shooting match, every TWA pilot would have lost their jobs, as well as everyone else. And getting furloughed would be the least of their worries at this point.

Does that make sense?

 

[TWA Dude]

Does that make sense?

Lemme explain it this way. When you pass a beggar on the street do you stop and tell him how lucky he is to even have clothing on him? Sure he's more fortunate than somebody else but what good are you doing him or yourself by telling him?

We all can find things to be thankful for. Job or no job I don't expect to starve or be without shelter. What I really don't need is somebody telling me how lucky I am when things don't go my way. You're not adding anything to the discussion and it gives you the appearance of arrogance since things are obviously going your way.

If you respond, I'm offline for the weekend.

 

[trainerjet]

My sentiments exactly, TWA Dude.

ultrarunner...feel better about yourself, now?

 

[Heavy Set]

Carty should be furloughed..........

Why isn't Carty losing his job? He was responsible for the BONEHEAD TWA acquisition in the first place.......... He and his entire management team needs to be furloughed. It is obvious the "McKinsey" rationale did not work - and Carty is responsible for that. Sure, nobody expected 9/11, but the move was questionable from the start. Nice contingency planning............

Carty should leave - period!


My 2 cents.

 

[ultrarunner]

My sentiments exactly, TWA Dude.

ultrarunner...feel better about yourself, now?

Look, I'm not busting balls, but all to often I see these threads on this similar subject on how 'everyone is getting shafted', etc...

The previous example is hardly representative, but that's OK. We are all fortunate to go as far as we can given the specific circumstances, that's all.

I got co-workers bitching about how their downgrade is really gonna put the hurt on 'em, so I don't even tell 'em they could have been furloughed because you known they would't even understand, because of this $hitty god-given-right type of attitude.

Oh well... Press on.

 

[General Lee]

Someone in Dallas told me that the furloughs will go back to May, 1999 hires. That sucks.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Counselair]

It sucks even more for the TWA November '88 hires!