How do you pick a CFI??

[Ailerongirl]

So after reading all the threads on how to be a better CFI, or on how to increase your marketability as a CFI, I started wondering.....as a student, how do you pick a good CFI?

Is it a trial and error thing to find a good fit? If you're brand new with no aviation experiance, how do you know if you instructor is good? Should you interview instructors to find one, rather than trust the 'next one in the door is yours' policy that many flight schools have?

Let me know what y'all think.

 

[dasmith]

You will want to check:

You will want to check:

- your CFI has a passion for what he is doing… look for the evidence
- to ensure your CFI’s credentials to be current.
- to ensure your CFI to be honest with you about your flying problems and how to fix them.
- to ensure your CFI to devise a training plan for you and share it with you.
- to book a lesson with your potential CFI. Pay particular attention to the preflight briefing, an in-flight lesson, and a post flight review.
- to ensure your personalities are compatible. Remember the cockpit is a small place: habits of students and CFIs can clash.
to ensure your CFI has high standards: he will make sure learning has occurred and the skills developed to become a safe pilot BEFORE a sign-off.

Pay attention to the teaching style:
- Does your instructor give you a proper preflight briefing to cover the lesson, or is he building flight time teaching you in the air what you can learn on the ground?
- Does he have you do most of the flying, even on this first flight lesson, or are you paying to watch him fly?
- Does he talk down to you?
- Is your instructor prepared for your lesson?
- Packing a lesson with as many maneuvers as possible is not an effective teaching technique, does your instructor have a structured approach that introduces new skills as you are ready?
- Do you have the feeling your CFI is honestly concerned with your progress (evidence of training plan, review of last lesson)?
- Are you at ease with your instructor?

Things to ask your CFI:
- Why are you a CFI?
- What learning materials will be used?
- What is the training plan/syllabus?
- What is the CFI’s ultimate goal? Even if the CFI is only a checkpoint on the path to an airline career, be wary of flight instructors who will waste your time.
- What is your CFI’s background: Experience, Ambition, Availability, Reliability
- What does your CFI do when a student gets “stuck”?
- Does your CFI take refresher courses, attend safety meetings, belong to professional organizations, or do other things that further his profession?

Good Instructors:
- are knowledgeable and enthusiastic.
- anticipate student difficulties and discuss them before getting into the aircraft.
- are organized, exacting and stimulating.
- are honest in their opinion and evaluation.
- chose the safest options and are always situationally aware.
- provide a realistic flying experience in varied conditions.
- know when to back off.
- take time to prepare the student for the lesson.
- take time to debrief the lesson afterwards.
- will not frighten a student.
- are safe pilots.
- never let themselves stagnate.

 

[bigD]

Honestly, it's difficult to evaluate a CFI by spending time with them on the ground. When you're chatting with him/her for the first time at the flight school, as Chris Rock says, you're not meeting him, you're meeting his representative. A lot of CFI's are like used care salesmen and will promise you the world on the ground, and you'll discover something completely different once the training gets started.

I guess I'm saying that simply chatting with different CFI's at the flight school might work on a surface level, but you're eventually gonna need to get in an airplane with one to know for sure if it's going to work.

Do you have any friends that might be able to recommend a specific instructor? That might help too.

 

[7B2]

Things to ask your CFI:
- Why are you a CFI? [/QUOTE

Because he/she has to....?

 

[nosehair]

Enough!

Then get away from that person.

 

[rudypilot]

the cheapest cfi is the best

rudy

 

[Lead Sled]

There has been some very good and unfortunately some not so very good advice given in this thread. Here's the simplest way to find quality CFIs...

Simply contact one or more of the “Designated Private Pilot Examiners” (Designees) in your area and ask them if they would be willing to recommend a CFI to work with you and why they are recommending him or her. It's really that simple.

As the old saying goes, “The proof of the pudding is in the eating.” Theses designated pilot examiners, as a direct result of giving multiple checkrides, become very familiar with the teaching abilities of the various CFIs in their area. They know which CFIs consistently turn out good pilots and which don’t. Your intention is to compile a list of experienced flight instructors with a proven track record of success. The easiest way for you to put this list together is to go straight to the designated examiners, themselves. Hopefully, as you compile this list, the names of certain CFIs will appear multiple times. This will make your selection process much easier.

the cheapest cfi is the best

That is perhaps the worst advise that I've ever read on this or any other forum. Find the best CFI you can and pay them what ever it takes. It will be the best money that you've ever spent.

Remember, when it comes to the quality of the flight training that you receive, YOUR FLIGHT INSTRUCTOR IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR iN DETERMINING THE QUALITY OF YOUR FLIGHT TRAINING. PERIOD. Whether you select an Part 141 "Approved" or Part 61 "Non-Approved" flight school or use a "freelance" flight instructor the quality of your training will be largely determined by individual flight instructor's skills, abilities, experience and knowledge. The best flight school facilities, training curriculum or the newest, best equipped training aircraft can not compensate for a mediocre flight instructor. Good instructors - they are where you find them. In fact, because of the nature of the beast, it is often very difficult to find flight instructors with any significant amount of meaningful "real world" experience in many flight schools, aeronautical colleges or universities.

Heresy you cry! Think about it. One of the "advantages" of doing your flight training in one of these schools is that once you receive your CFI you too can be an instructor at the school to build time quickly and (eventually) move on to bigger and better things.

Here's the problem - it actually smacks of "the blind leading the blind". You can't teach what you don't know. As far as experience goes, there is a big difference between 1,000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience repeated 1,000 times. CFI's tend to fall into the latter category.

It's not that 1000 hour commercial, instrument, CFIs don't have a lot to contribute. They certainly do. Many of them, who are active CFIs, can fly circles around us when it comes to specific maneuvers that they might be teaching and performing on a daily basis and we might not have done for months or years. The issue is one of depth, not breath of knowledge. Remember, like I said earlier, you can't teach what you don't know. This is where you reap the rewards of diligently looking for that "golden CFI", the person who is that special combination of effective teacher and has the background and experience to go with it. Instructors like that aren't under every rock, they aren't at every university or FBO, but they are out there - you have to look for them.

Lead Sled

 

[bobbysamd]

New v. old (more experienced) instructors in 141 schools

The points above are good, but you must bear in mind that as a new flight school student you probably won't get to choose an instructor. You will be assigned to an instructor. That instructor might be experienced or may be new. It's not necessarily a bad thing if you are assigned to a new instructor.

141 schools require all instructors to go through initial standardization and annual standardization flights. The purpose is to assure that instructors are all teaching the same things and possess a minimum level of knowledge. Sometimes, having a new instructor is better because he/she will likely be enthusiastic and really care. The cynical view would be that he/she wants to do well because he/she knows that good performance will mean sooner upgrades to teaching multi and instruments.

You do want to be sure that your instructor is giving you proper pre and post-flight briefings. The ground work is vital to learning. Your instructor should explain things clearly and entertain your questions patiently - but it's unfair to test his/her patience by asking the same things repeatedly or play Stump the Dummy with your instructor. By that token, you should not run to the Chief Instructor and demand an instructor change if he/she says he/she doesn't know something but will get the answer.

Your instructor obviouly should show an interest. I always called my post-solo Private students at home the evening of their flights to ask how their flights went. Same for cross-countries and my Commercial students' cross-countries. An instructor should view it in terms of servicing his/her customers. Your instructor should be reasonably available to you. Most instructors I've known are happy to take phone calls at home; I always was, within limits.

As you go through your school, you will hear about some instructors being better than others. Some are. However, a lot of what you will hear is based on personalities versus willingness to learn. You will hear that some instructors are SOBs or the female equivalent. In a 141 school, instructors have to impose a certain measure of discipline because TCO hours are limited and students have to learn in the prescribed times. The complainers sometimes construe tough love as meanness. I found that some of my American students at FlightSafety did not care for a disciplined approach to learning, but my Italian Alitalia students, who probably expected and wanted a focused approach, liked it just fine.

Understand that attending a 141 school is not supposed to be a day at the beach. It is school. Your instructor is there to teach but you are there to learn. Chances are, if you meet the person halfway you will do great.

Hope this helps some more

 

[Lead Sled]

If you're paying for the dual you get to choose your instructor. If they don't give you the option then you get to exercise your option to choose another school. What ever you do, don't settle for mediocracy. Don't be sucked in with the idea that 141 schools are the best way to go. Sometimes they are, but if you want the best instruction available find the best CFI first then choose the flight school. You'll get better overall instruction with a good free-lance CFI in a 35 year old C-150 than with a mediocre Part 141 flight school CFI in a brand new Warrior.

 

[Timebuilder]

Simply contact one or more of the “Designated Private Pilot Examiners” (Designees) in your area and ask them if they would be willing to recommend a CFI to work with you and why they are recommending him or her. It's really that simple.

That sounds good, until you consider this: if everyone chose a CFI using this method, there would be no students for new CFI's, since they would all flock to the existing instructors who would be recommended by the DPE's.

I don't think a CFI who is honest enough to say that they are instructing "because they have to" is necessarily a bad thing. How many instructors would bypass the CFI experience entirely if the alternative was a $60k position as a working pilot? The fact is that the CFI experience is a right of passage for most pilots. Some learn to like it, like I did, and some detest it. So, finding a CFI who has learned to like the teaching as much as the flying is probably your best choice.

 

[Lead Sled]

You are absolutely correct - if everyone used the method then there would indeedbe no students for new CFIs. The question was asked how to find the best CFI and I gave my answer. If someone asks me to recommend a CFI am I going to recommend a new CFI just because it happens to be best for "the system" or an experienced CFI because they will provide the best instruction? What do you think I'd do? What would you do?

In the real world, most students simply accept who ever is assigned to them and let it go at that. It's up to the luck of the draw as to whether or not you get a good instructor.

By the way, I am a firm believer in the value of spending a stint as a CFI for all aspiring professional pilots. As in any teaching situation, it's always the teacher who learns the most and there is no better way to learn many inportant aviation lessons. However, there is only so much benefit to be gained by instructing and most guys seem to get about all they're going to get from instructing in 500 to 1000 hours.

Personally, when I'm evaluating a prospective hire, I look for guys that have been CFIs; but when it comes to flight time, I just give them full credit for the first 500 hours of dual given - after that, it's just 50%. Like I said previously, there's a big difference between 1000 hours of experience and 1 hour of experience repeated 1000 times.

Lead Sled

 

[Cosmo1999]

- your CFI has a passion for what he is doing… look for the evidence

Gullable pilot when he first gets a CFI job -->
same pilot after getting his first check -->
CFI after about 500 hours of doing the same thing over and over -->
Owner of FBO enjoying vacation because he pays the CFI $10/hour instead of the $40/hour he charges
Pilot after realizing he spent over $30,000 to get paid $10/hour and after 5 consecutive 12 hour days

I hate to say it but its hard to find a CFI with passion. They get treated like crap and the pay is horrible. The best CFI is probably a new one since he has the most passion of all of them. Also another good CFI would be one who is independant of an FBO and charges a rate that he deserves. Those kind definately have passion. The ones you find at flight schools and FBOs however generally do not. As a former instructor I have to say things need to change unfortunately probably wont. Too many people out there will do it for free.

 

[bigD]

There are good CFI's out there. True, most are stuggling with the reality of getting paid squat for what they do, but lots still maintain a positive attitude and work with their students to the best of their ability.

 

[dmspilot00]

You'll get better overall instruction with a good free-lance CFI in a 35 year old C-150 than with a mediocre Part 141 flight school CFI in a brand new Warrior.

You just described my exact experience! Except it was a C-152, and the Warrior was a few years old. Instead of saying "you'll get better overall instruction," I'd say there is absolutely no comparison. After I tried 8 different instructors at the 141 school I couldn't find any that knew what they were doing.

Oh yeah.. for advice.. ask your instructor how they like flying C152s, Warriors, or whatever plane they teach in. Most, if not all instructors that are only instructing to build time will say how they can't stand little planes and can't wait to start flying the King Air or whatever. There's a big red flag.

 

[EatSleepFly]

After I tried 8 different instructors at the 141 school I couldn't find any that knew what they were doing.

Are you sure you're qualified to say that eight seperate instructors had no idea what they were doing? Perhaps its you. I've had students like that before...its everyone's fault but their own.

Whenever a student or prospective student asks me why I'm a CFI, I'm honest. I tell them that the job is generally the best way to build experience, but in no way does that mean I'm going to take it any less seriously...and I don't. I actually enjoy instructing, and plan to at least do a little here and there no matter what other jobs I have.

 

[bobbysamd]

Problem instructors v. problem students

You just described my exact experience! Except it was a C-152, and the Warrior was a few years old. Instead of saying "you'll get better overall instruction," I'd say there is absolutely no comparison. After I tried 8 different instructors at the 141 school I couldn't find any that knew what they were doing.

How did you know they didn't know what they were doing? What made you so qualified to judge them?

An instructor change after one instructor is (somewhat) understandable; personalities, teaching styles and willingness to receive instruction can clash. But eight instuctors? I assume that you would have kept the same one from start to finish at your school had that person been compatible with you. Having been there and done that, I must second the comments above. If you could not learn from eight separate instructors, then at least part of problem could have been you.

I worked at three major Part 141 schools; ERAU, FlightSafety and Mesa. Instructor changes were always entertained because if a student complains about the intructor the instructor-student relationship has been irretrievably broken. I considered myself always to be a conscientious, dedicated instructor, but if a student did not want to fly with me I no longer had any interest in him.

Then, you have students with whom no instructor wants to fly. Many of these individuals think they are owed. I had one in particular at MAPD. No instructor wanted to work with this fellow, so, because I was new to MAPD, he was assigned (dumped) to me. This young man was actually a decent student and pilot but acted very smug and thought the world revolved around him. He started off alright but tried to make demands on my time that I refused. He refused to schedule during my availability and then did not schedule at all. He fell behind in his course, which absolutely was against school rules, and tried to catch up at the end, at his convenience. He blew his stage check. He argued with me in flight about theory and technique. Finally, he passed his ride but because of his 'tude, he was denied "the interview" with Mesa. A better way to say it is he blew it. "The interview" is virtually guaranteed to anyone MAPD students who follows the program.

As I wrote above, flight training is an intense one-on-one relationship. 141 is an intense learning situation, and not unlike airline training. Most flight instructors will go out of their way to help a dedicated student, especially those who need help. Most flight instructors will not want to bother with whiners, slackers and those who feel they are owed.

 

[dmspilot00]

Are you sure you're qualified to say that eight seperate instructors had no idea what they were doing? Perhaps its you. I've had students like that before...its everyone's fault but their own.

Changing schools solved the problem. Yes, I am sure I am qualified. I did all of my private training (a year and a half and 50 hours) with the same instructor, a middle-aged person who flight instructed solely for fun. I enjoyed every minute of that instruction.

I changed to the Part 141 school because I was attracted to the reduced minimum times for the instrument rating and commercial certificate--a big mistake on my part. The reason I had 8 wasn't because I kept asking for a different instructor, but because I was never really assigned an instructor, and just flew with whoever happened to be available that day. Some of these instructors had good personalities, some bad, but all were really unknowledgable about the subjects they were supposed to be teaching. I didn't say they had "no idea" what they were doing... they did have an idea, but not a very good idea...

I can usually tell in one flight whether an instructor is good or not. It doesn't take a rocket scientist and it doesn't take much qualification.

"Most flight instructors will not want to bother with whiners, slackers and those who feel they are owed."

Most of the eight instructors I mentioned themselves were whiners, slackers, etc. The problem was the instructors, not the students. Actually, the real problem was the school that hired these yahoos in the first place. Starting pay was $7 / hour ... any CFI willing to work for that can't possibly be worth much.

I am sorry that I was vague in my original post.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

keep it simple:

PICKING A CFI --

Walk in and get the newest guy there. Brand New CFI is a plus. He will try his a$$ of to teach you. He will be truly concerned with your progress.

After 4-500 hrs of CFI'ing eeryone is burned out and only wants the choice students (hot chiks).

Another thought, if one is not burned out after a year or so - he has severe mental problems and I wouldn't get in an airplane with him.

 

[bigD]

dmspilot - I've said this before and will say it again. You REALLY need to lighten up! You're wound waaay too tight - especially for someone your age!

 

[EatSleepFly]

Another thought, if one is not burned out after a year or so - he has severe mental problems and I wouldn't get in an airplane with him.