How do you do it?

[pilotyip]

Point here: you are not a regional F/O forever; it is an entry level position. No more than I was an Ensign forever at $300/mo

 

[English]

The fallback value of a degree is greatly over rated. I have a BS and a Master's in Management, but at age 53, I was making $250/wk loading cargo. After Zantop pretended to go out of went out of business in 1997, I had been a temporary High School Chemistry Teacher up until two weeks before the cargo job came along. However, they do not teach school in the summer so I had to take the cargo job. The value of an unused degree is highly over rated. 53 year old unemployed airline pilots are not eagerly greeted in any industry that I know of, even of having a couple degrees. Of course, I did not apply for many of the "College degree preferred jobs" such as apt manager, telephone direct sales, plumping floor manager at Home Depot, etc. If you get a college degree you have to use, the knowledge gained in college to develop a career or the degree is useless. After getting a degree, flying an airplane is not a knowledge expanding experience; it is skill development experience. Anyone care to chime in and share their experiences on entering the non-aviation job market after being out of college 20-30 years?

Yip, do you have this saved on your hard drive somewhere so you can just keep posting the same thing over and over again? I swear sometimes you sound like a broken record.

Was I married to you before?

 

[Socalplt]

Did you ever think that there is more to this career than making money? Gee what a novel idea, work a job that you actually enjoy doing even though it's not the top paying job out there.


And this is precisely why the job only pays 20K. If your profile is accurate (600hrs with B1900 and ERJ experience) I'd say you bought yours.

 

[AGuyThatFlys]

How do you new hires that make $20k a year survive? I have a chance to get on with an airline and make around that level, but have no idea how I'd make ends meet. I have a nice car and a decent place to live, but I sure don't live like a king. I could get rid of the car and get some crapmobile, but thats not going to make a huge difference. How do you do it???

Regional FO is a third career for me.

Started out in the Navy. Did my time, knew I was leaving, saved money for the career transition.

Second career was a Boeing engineer. Good pay, saved money, earned my ratings over several years. In the meantime, joined the Navy Reserve. Drilled one weekend a month, two weeks a year. And saved that money. Continued to build hours. I joined the Civil Air Patrol and flew missions (paid for by the Air Force). Flew CAP aircraft to maintain proficiency, a CAP requirement. Really cheap flying; $30/hour plus fuel for a Cessna 182. Thought flying would remain a hobby until...

...I was laid off from Boeing after 9/11. For a year immediately after 9/11, I was recalled to active duty in the Navy. Actually took home more as a Navy officer than as a Boeing engineer (taxed less). And saved that money. With the free time, I was able to get my CFI and CFII. Decided to try a career as a professional pilot.

Worked as a CFI for a year. Built more time. Met and married a woman who works in the health care industry (never out of work, and her pay is OK). Saved more money.

We had well into the five figures saved when I finally got the call to a regional. Still giving flying lessons when I can. As a free-lance CFI, I charge my own rate.

All this time I was living below my means. Still driving the four-cylinder rice burner I bought 15 years ago. Shared living expenses by having roommates.

You got to live cheap and save, save, save for those first couple of years flying for a regional.

 

[49W]

Get a life A$$hole! Did you ever think that there is more to this career than making money? Gee what a novel idea, work a job that you actually enjoy doing even though it's not the top paying job out there. Your attitude shows why you will never make it in this industry.

There is more to this career than making money. There is also more to life than this career. One day, you may want to own a home, have a family, and enjoy life. Upgrade times are getting longer and longer at many regionals and even our relatively low current payrates seem to be threatened.

 

[BOHICAgain]

Cause the airline I'd be flying for is based at MIA and thats where I'd have to commute to.

Thats not a commute.... you live in base so you wont have to pay for a crashpad or hotel room there. So when you do start flying just try to pick up 4 day trips to limit the time you have to drive a month...good luck

The reason I stay where I am is because I worked my aZs of to get here.. yeah yeah I went to a 4 year school got my degree along w/ my ratings...got all loaned up..so now what am i supposed to do, go work a sales job or go work construction. Yeah it pays 24K first year, but i make more than I did as CFI.
I decided I wanted to do this when I was out of high school so now I am paying for my decision... and im not complaning but that is why I do it... and hoping ti gets better.

 

[Groundpounder]

Thats not a commute.... you live in base so you wont have to pay for a crashpad or hotel room there. So when you do start flying just try to pick up 4 day trips to limit the time you have to drive a month...good luck

I define a commute as getting in my car and driving to work.

Also, this airline doesn't do much overnight stuff, so I'll be stuck driving alot, which stinks.

 

[coolyokeluke]

Are you talking about Gulfstream? Not trying to turn this into a PFT issue...

 

[PadFull'oTrim]

Try this....

Sell the wife and rent out the car......
Oh wait, it's sell the car and rent out the wife....


Really though, I don't have to do anything like that. I'm one of those pilots you hear about in all the salary surveys that say pilots make $300K/year!!


If you need to get extra cash right now, try getting your paper route back!


Pad....

 

[Groundpounder]

Are you talking about Gulfstream? Not trying to turn this into a PFT issue...

Ummmmmm...........NO!!!!

 

[landlover]

With his listed time and flying from MIA, I'd bet money its in a shorts 360 maybe a metro for a company called IBC.

 

[Superpilot92]

my question is how do the guys at Great Lakes make ends meet. $15 bucks an hour. In Denver none the less. This is an honest question. Because its sucks making first year pay at a "good" regional i couldnt imagine making less. I was offered a job at great lakes and would have loved to have been based out of Denver but i just couldnt do it.

 

[gnx99]

I don't think it was too tough to live off new hire pay, for the first year. I was fairly fresh out of college, so I didn't have many expenses (mortgage, kids, wife, etc.)

What I can't figure out is how "older" new-hires with families and houses do it.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Of course you could "live in a van down by the river!"

First year is never easy. Even at some of the majors you only make 30 first year.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I don't think it was too tough to live off new hire pay, for the first year. I was fairly fresh out of college, so I didn't have many expenses (mortgage, kids, wife, etc.)

What I can't figure out is how "older" new-hires with families and houses do it.

I think "older" pilots getting into the profession have a little more realistic view of the industry. They plan for it! Not like naive high school students who make all their decisions with what they see on TV or what their pee-pee says.(MMMM.... FLIGHT ATTENDANTS and walking around the mall in my uniform).

I got into aviation with a wife and house and child on the way. But it was a plan I had for years. Eliminate debt, reduce expenses, build up a cash reserve, and be up front with my wife about the pros and cons. I got my licenses over the years and have no debt from it.

My question is how do young kids do it coming out of college with $50000-$100000 in loans manage. 3-5 years of making less than $20000. another 3-5 years of making less (ususally much less) than $50000. Then maybe $70000 for a couple years as a captain at a regional before (If you are lucky) get the call from Continental and go back to $25,000. Then maybe another 6 years to top $100,000?
At what point do you pay off that loan? Oh, I know, Just file bankruptcy and deal with the couple years of bad credit. I have read it many times on this board.
Bankruptcy laws are changing and the easy out will not work any more. Maybe this will make people stop and think before diving head first into this profession without a clue of what waits for them....Probably not.

SS

 

[pilotyip]

But secret you do not have to follow that career path. Skip college, get into the on-demand buisness as a career starter after your CFI time building. We start DA-20 F/O's at $35K, a couple years laters you are DA-20 Captain making about $60K. If you stay 10 years you are a DC-9 Captain making over $135K if you want. There are many places out there like that. And you do not have carry the $100K of college debt either.

 

[DC8 Flyer]

How do you do it?

With my cowboy hat and boots on, ashtray on the small of her back!


imp:

 

[dogismycopilot]

the f/o diet...spend less on food and sacrifice 10, 20, 30 lbs. of buttery fat... mmmm... cold spaghetti-o's out of the can are the saving grace during overnights. Just don't forget to add some fiber to your diet, beans work great and the CA loves it!

 

[WhiteCloud]

xxxxx

 

[WhiteCloud]

Of course you could "live in a van down by the river!

Been there...done that. Ran out of money my last semester of college. It was actually a 73 Ford Station Wagon and I cleaned up at the dorm when the doors opened in the morning. Free hotel breakfasts and happy hour snacks and working in the dorm cafeteria (access to free food) a couple hours a day got me through. Where there's a will there is a way. Good luck.