How do you deal with these Students???

[your_dreamguy]

Hey,

I got a part-time instructing job and am trying to build about 200 hours in the next 6 months to show currency for regionals that I apply for.

Anyway, I have had some bad luck with students. I had one student come to our flight school and tell me he was looking for a school to do his private. I talked him into a 45 minute discovery flight and gave him a tour of our school. As we were walking out to our plane, he walks into our rival flight school and starts taking pamphlets and talking to instructors (while I'm holding his headsets for the flight). Anyway, he went on the flight. After the flight he told me he wanted to do his private, wanted me as his instructor, set up a 7:00AM lesson for a few days in the future.

The next day, I'm with another student and I see this same guy taking a discovery flight with an instuctor from the rival flight school. Well, you guessed it. This guy never showed for his 7:00 AM lesson. I was pissed as hell.

I had another guy, tell me (on the phone) that he wanted to come tour the school. We set up an appointment time. Well, this guy missed his appointment time. When I called the guy to find out what happened, he said he was touring another flight school during our scheduled appointment time.

Finally, I have a student that is doing helo training. This guy already has his private pilot helo and fxed. First, he comes in my flight school and tells me he wants to do a checkout to rent planes. After the checkout, he tells me he wants to do his PPL MEL. Then after a few days, he tells me he wants to do his instrument SEL. I give him some instrument lessons and then I don't hear from him for the next 3 days. Then I walk into my flight school and he's there sitting, waiting for me, without scheduling or calling. Then we go do some more lessons in the next few days and I don't hear from him again.

Is it just me? I don't think so. I'm kind of tired of stupid students like these. And in case you're wondering... NO!!! It wasn't me. I've been extremely professional.

So, have you dealt with people like these? If so, how did you deal with them?

How can you tell the all-talkers, from those who are serious, professional students?

Any advice on how to prevent this type of stuff in the future?

Any marketing suggestions?

Any help is greatly appreciated!

 

[hyper]

which underarm deodorant are you using? I use Sure, works good for me

 

[Corbon]

Let em go. They're probably the type that if you end up flying with them all you'll do is watch the hobbs click away waiting for the hour to be up so you can go back the the airport to contemplate why you got into aviation to begin with. You'll hate life trying to deal with these people. Better students will come along that you enjoy working with. Good luck.

 

[banned username 2]

I agree with Corbon... You won't "land" them all... Some will come and some will go... don't take it personally...

Now if ALL your students start to leave, well.... then you can take it personally!

 

[TurboS7]

Just like women in a bar. You buy all the beer and she walks out with some other guy that just showed up. Builds character.

 

[TDTURBO]

Another reason for attrition you may want to consider is cost. How much is rental at the rival school? Is it the same price/hr as your school? This may be the most important factor in choosing an instructor for some people. Personally, I would pay double to have a good instructor, it's cheaper in the long run.

 

[JediNein]

The last several batches of BEAPILOT leads have been disappointing, to say the least. We've had several no-shows, cancel and reschedules, and one flight followed by two cancelled lessons.

In the last week I had a student schedule my time, then show at the airplane with another CFI. "Oh, I'm going to fly with this guy, bu call me afterwards." I make two calls, leave two messages, and don't hold my breath for a return call. If she calls again, I'm really sorry, but, I'm booked solid for the next three (6, 9, 12) months. I truly do not need to waste my time working with people that do not want to work with me.

Greg Brown's book, "Savvy CFI" is good. The TV and radio ads aren't worth the price. Handing out business cards, engaging potential students in conversations about themselves, and scouting out the competition are ideas. What is the other flight school doing that has your students choosing them over you?

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[bobbysamd]

Problem students

Look at it this way. Chances are, these folks would be problem students who would/will pull the same things on other instructors. Life is too short. You don't need that kind of aggravation.

You see the same things in other businesses. I work in a law office. There are people who call our office who want to see a lawyer. I have to take their calls, interview them, and schedule appointments for them. New clients, of course, are the lifeblood of our business, and it's my job to deal with them. However, a significant number of them no-show us after I take the time and effort to schedule them, and lack the common courtesy to call beforehand to cancel. Even worse are the ones who schedule appointments and cancel, schedule again and cancel ad infinitum. It's annoying, but we don't need clients like them.

I agree with Jedi. Print up some business cards, attend pilot meetings, and market yourself. A great source of business is FAA WINGS seminars. My instructor got a lot of business from WINGS seminars. Pass out your cards to everyone. You never know who might know someone who might know someone who wants to fly.

Good luck with your efforts.

 

[COOPERVANE]

I have had similar problems. I am lucky to work at an airport with 2 good flight schools, (and 1 not so good), and we get along great with them.
I have kept records for intro flights and have found that if I call them the night before or morning of the flight, they always show. If I don't, about 50% no show me.

What seems to work for me is to be helpful, honest, upfront, and excited about flying, but I come across as if I don't care if they fly with me or not. I say that we all share our intro flight students and to pick the instructor that fits their schedule/personality best. We all do this and the result is a low pressure "glad to have you aboard" atmosphere. Students rarely go anywhere else afterwards.

During lean times when we got more competitive, students picked up on our desperation.

Good luck, Cheers!!

 

[CatYaaak]

Just like women in a bar. You buy all the beer and she walks out with some other guy that just showed up. Builds character.

Ahhh, so YOU are the one who bought her all the beer that night. You know, I've always wanted to thank you....

 

[TurboS7]

Your welcome.

 

[tarp]

You, your employer and the rule of tens.

1.) You say you are not the problem. But what of your professionalism. Your moniker (screen name) on this board is either boastful or shows a sense of humor. I can't figure it out, so what happens when you meet a customer face-to-face? Are you an outstanding professional that they need to have as their teacher or is there an "edge" that you show - a self defence mechanism for you but leaves doubt in the customer as they turn and walk out the door. (By the way, you asked for help, so don't take this as a flame - I'm just asking the question.) As a senior CFI who has never had problems attracting customers I have seen many folks display all sorts of "mixed messages" to their customers. My message is always: a.) I absolutely love flying, b.) I am a seasoned professional that has a specific and successful curriculum that will get the candidate from any starting point to the rating of their dreams, c.) all lessons will emphasize the safety of flight while maximizing the amount of fun we can have in this process.

2.) Your employer and the competition. This is tough. Are you the high dollar firm? Do you have the best equipment? What does your employer and your flight school offer that is superior to the product on the other side of the field (parking lot)? If the answer is nothing - then something has to happen to make your firm competitive. In this market, hanging a sign on the wall and having a cherry 1975 C-172 that always starts is not going to atttract customers. Look honestly at the operation and find out if you are the best bargain. Now - I'm not saying that you have to be cheapest. Heck no - You could be $20/hr more but you better be able to look over the ramp and show your customer that you have newer equipment, better classrooms, better teachers and better maintenance. That claim has to be backed up with substance. Can you be the cheapest? Sure. Bang for the buck. Sure the guy on the other side has the newest C-172's right from Kansas with attitude indicators that keep breaking, starters that short out in flight, etc. etc. Why, you would ask your customer would you pay $20/hr for a brand new car smell on a tempermental plane that's the equivalent of a Ford Focus, when you can be flying in our fully equiped, well maintained fleet for a third of the price.

3.) The rule of tens applies to high dollar sales and hiring employees. It says that for every advertisement, there are ten people that answer. Of those ten people, there is only one you want to talk to. (i.e. if hiring - only one has the qualifications, if selling - only one has the desire and money). Now, you need ten qualified individuals - because only one of these ten will actually succeed. Ergo, you must go through 100 people to find the one that will stick. In aviation, I've been pretty lucky - since people who come looking for flying lessons are already motivated, you remove the first rule of ten. That's what I averaged - about 10% of people who talk to me at the front desk actually end up taking lessons. After the "three-hour wonders" drop out, you end up with about 5% who get their solos and certificates.

Welcome to marketing and business strategies 101 - there's a graduate level course, but I'm afraid I'll have to charge you for those lessons.

 

[avbug]

YDG,

The first thing that stuck out in my mind about your post was your reference to these individuals as "stupid." That reference alone tells me more about your situation than I really wanted to know. Stupid students? I think not.

The folks who come through your door are consumers. They have worked hard to earn their money, and they're trying to decide how best to spend it to get what they want. Are you going to call them stupid for doing this? Sounds like they're doing just right, to me.

Do you feel that you are somehow special, that the rules of the game do not apply to you? Do you feel that simply because a student has talked to you, they are promised to you? Is the student even aware that it's common to try to stick with one instructor, or that you may be their instructor rather than just the guy who gives demonstration flights? As a first timer, gathering pamphlets and brochures, I probably wouldn't be.

You want professional students? Isn't that an oxymoron? What of your ability to motivate a student? How do you reach inside and light a student's fire? You cannot force a student to learn, but the experience a student has in his early flying will be largely reflective of the example you set. Are you so excited about flying that you can hardly contain yourself? Or are you building hours? (Take a hint now and don't reply to me if you're "building hours"). Just what is it that your potential client (notice I didn't say "stupid student") is seeing? Sensing?

When I flight instructed full time, I made a point of encouraging a student to visit other schools, fly with other instructors. Now, when I fly with a student, I make certain they understand that their needs come first. I encourage them from the word go to seek additional instruction if they need it, or to try other instructors if they wish. I encourage them to shop around, find the place they wish to fly from, the airplanes they wish to fly. I'll take them there and introduce them to the other place, if they like. I have nothing to hide, and I can only be effective as an instructor if I have the student's best interests in mind.

Who's interests do you have in mind?

You should also bear in mind that the client will pick up on your sense of priority. If you can clearly show the student that he or she is your first and only priority, then that student will very likely be convinced of your conviction and professionalism, and will be drawn to flying with you. People pick up on this, just as a horse senses it's rider's attitude through the reins.

Someone comes through, shopping, then help them do what they came to do. If seeing a potential client enter another flight school pisses you off, then you probably need to get out of instructing. If your attitude is that strained and unstable, then you need to seek something where you aren't contaminating students enthusiasm, judgement, and attitude. Instructing is a people-business. More than instructing, you need to be a teacher.

Instructors aren't teachers; teaching is a higher plane that actually involves skill and desire. This is opposed to instructing, which is the administration of a syllabus, the manipulation of a card reader or cash register, and the posession of a certificate. A teacher is a valueable find, an instructor is a dime a dozen, and merits no particular attention. Which are you? Which do you want to be?

A poor carpenter blames his tools. One does not become angry at a tool, and one does not become angry at a student. If an impasse is reached, then one tries to find another way to reach the student. Make this your goal. If your client isn't interested, and you cannot motivate that client, then move on, and don't waste your energy worrying about what is not. If you can motivate the student, remember to redouble your efforts every time you meet, such that neither your fire, nor that of your client, ever cools. Give him something to look forward to, and you have a winner.

The outcome is largely up to you. The student's decision is the student's alone. The image you present is entirely under your control, however, and I'd strongly suggest avoiding the attitude that students are stupid, or that a student has done anything wrong or offensive to you. The student is your employer. Remember that. Serve your employer, and see if things don't turn around.

 

[throttlejockey]

Its been a long time since I was in that business but maybe you should consideer specializing in a certain market such as Accelerated Instrument Ratings.

I know one guy that makes people pay a hefty deposit in order to book with them. That limits the no-show factor.

throttle

 

[TurboS7]

When I was instructing I loved to fly and it showed. I remember having a student do climbing turns to 7500 feet so we could watch the sun set together. Then we would enter a spin and come out at 2000 feet then land. They loved it and I had all the students that I could possibly handle, I worked my way through A+P school that way. I loved it and my students loved to ride with a guy that loved to fly.

 

[CatYaaak]

You have to have a little "salesman" in you, but even if you are like me and couldn't sell a lifejacket to a drowning man, selling "flying" comes naturally if you love it and let that enthusiam show through. Being professional does not equate with being stoic, and at some level the prospective student shares that enthusiam.

Remember that time spent with you, the instructor, is time they will not be spending with their significant others, spouses, kids, or at their jobs. Other people in their lives may be negative motivators, telling the student that flying is a waste of time, their hard-earned money, or may possibly get them killed. Give them the things that counteract these doubts which they may to some degree harbor themselves: enthused professionalism and individual attention.

Sometimes selling yourself or school over another is a matter of information and what kind of instructor you want to be. For instance, I instructed at a place that had no policy regarding what to charge for ground school. Since I believe a student is owed a good brief and debrief as a part of every flight lesson, I told them up front they wouldn't be charged for them if they prepared. I let them know there were only 3 times they would be billed for ground school, and the length of those sessions would depend entirely on how much they studied: 1 session prior to soloing, 1 long session during x-country work, and 1 session prior to their check ride. "Hangar flying" was never billed. Generally for older students, their time is in demand, and since studying may not be something they have done in decades, motivating them to do so is harder than for a college kid. I gave something tangible in return for doing so; money saved. For those who could have easily afforded it, it still served at least as a token of my recognition that their time was valuable (they were the kind who would give you a bottle of Dom, etc. for X-mas). Students appreciate openess and consideration, and you never know when or what will tip the scales in your favor.

Outside of flying aerobatics, I think the most consistently fun and rewarding thing I've done in aviation has occured on the ground; watching a student's first solo. From the look on their faces the moment you exit the running airplane and proclaim you are sick and tired of riding around the traffic pattern with someone who's performance has relegated you to serving as mere ballast and then watching them grease 3 on, to the new confidence and sometimes outright joy they express as they as they egress ("I'll take care of the postflight and tie down today because I'm still your instructor dammit and I'm instructing you to go use the phone and tell someone what an awesome job you just did flying this airplane").

I think I always shared in their natural high, remembering my own first solo. And I'd venture to guess that because no alcohol is ever involved, a greater percentage of people can accurately reflect and remember the excitement of "knowing I can fly" than they do at least one of the other rite-of-passage "firsts" in their lives. I've never met anyone who has forgotten.

 

[avbug]

Ah. Now there is an instructor after my own heart. I suspect that Catyaak is not only an instructor, but a teacher. Some things just naturally show.

 

[Airline Pilot27]

This post reminds me alot of the good old days when I went from a cheap FBO job to one of the better flight instructing gigs. You might as well get used to that sort of treatment while teaching at an FBO....thats just how it is. But my advice would be; If all the students are switching to the rival school then perhaqps you should consider this as well. Believe me where you teach makes all the difference in the world. You will not have so many problems with no shows etc if you teach at one of the abinitio schools like for JAL as an example. When I went from FBO to Abinitio it was like breaking up with Rosanne and hooking up with Anna Kornikova. Flight instructing is alot of fun if you make it.