How did it go so wrong, so fast ?

[netjetwife]

Okay, Netjet Wife. I promised quite a few people to stop being mean on these message boards so here is my first attempt."

Sticking to the ISSUES--thank you. NJW


1) Non members logging on to the union message board.

2) An MEC that promised so much and delivered so little.

3) A union that allowed a bunch of Eastern scabs to get employment and membership here.



" Your first class seats at American became empty when the price of a private jet became unrealistically low. We now have consumers of this product with caviar tastes hoping to consume at fast-food prices."


I would add that 9-11 had much to do with it. Worries over security and the desire to avoid hassles and waste of time encountered in airline flying has caused those that CAN afford it to seek alternative transportation that is considered to be a value in comparison because of the increase in security and convenience.


"$28,000 minus $10,500, or $17,500.

That was the perceived value of our expertise by the bean counters.

"I have met the enemy, the enemy is us".

My answers: to #1---Wives were INVITED to post on the board and join in a discussion of the issues that are affecting THEM directly. Moreover, for a long time many of us have been reading the board and posting for our husbands when they are on tour and don't have access to the board. My guy considers the $10 hotel fee for internet a luxury we don't budget for. Many other couples do the same thing. A number of us are volunteers for SU and need to communicate w/pilots in that capacity, myself included. Families make a huge sacrifice --spouses and children--in order for pilots to be gone from home half the month. Why deny them the right to comment on issues that impact their lives every day? Again, the vast majority of couples see employment of either partner as a joint decision. You cannot make informed judgements without access to the information.

#2--MEC M onstrously E gotistical C on-artists! DUMP THEM
#3--Eastern pilots---An area that spouses aren't involved with. PAY not personalities, concerns me. All other aspects of the TA, as well.


As to the mention of the airlines vs fractional flying--- I would add that 9-11 had much to do with it. Worries over security and the desire to avoid hassles and waste of time encountered in airline flying has caused those that CAN afford it to seek alternative transportation that is considered to be a VALUE in comparison because of the increase in security and convenience.

Regarding training costs, current pay, and "worth".----

There are industry average payscales to consult, and NJA pilots' salaries are NOT comparing favorably, esp. considering that they fly for the #1 company but are paid below industry average. Profit sharing, under the TA, is a JOKE!
ON $123 MILLION IN NET PROFITS, YOU WILL GET A CHECK FOR $41.67!!

Many companies, in AND out of aviation, invest in their most important assest--their employees. I used my brother-in-law, employeed by Dell Computers,as an example, in a previous post. Dell paid for his college education and various seminars around the country and after 10 yrs of valued service are rewarding him with a 6 figure salary. When I told Richard that I'd used him as an example of companies that reward employees that help to build the business, his response was---

"You should have mentioned the other benefits like bonus > $20K and stock options >$500K and 401K > $300K" Note: Richard is a team leader, not upper management.

 

[Hawkered]

Netjet Wife,

Sadly, the airlines were in a great deal of trouble well before 9/11.They were already holding each others heads under the water and were almost at breaking point.

9/11 is a great excuse for decades of a broken airline model using aging aircraft, a labor intensive hub and spoke system and multiple aircraft types, not to mention exorbitant executive salaries. Time is a precious commodity, it's why the Citation X depreciates so much slower than other aircraft types and it's the reason we all have cell phones and the internet.

In aviation the factory moves at 500 mph, yet people don't see the importance of having a bright and reactive response at the helm. You probably do see that importance, because it is primary to your husbands training in the air force.

Since 1983, 146 airlines have gone through bankruptcy. Only America West has been able not to return to the same protection it provided, (chapter 11).

I have been flying for 21 years. I have seen the stupidity of management, the stupidity of union leadership and, sadly, even the stupidity of aircrew. All of these things had something in common: bad leadership.

One must often wonder whether Donald Carty was smoking crack when he agreed to purchase TWA. He was eventually fired by his own workers, but he nearly drove American off a cliff!

Okay, now back to Netjets:

You want us to vote no. Alright, then what? We go to war with the second richest man in the world who just lost his wife, (she told him to buy us, by the way), then we go back to the negotiation table, thrash it out for another six months, it all becomes even more unsightly, then.....what?

My bet is that he'll wake up one morning and say to himself, what he did years ago with USAir. "To hell with it, I'm out." (No I do not know that those were his exact words, but he sold his stake).

Then what?

The military is an enormous adjustment. You have a whole mindset change, a paradigm shift of value. It's the same when you leave. My guess is that you still haven't really "left".

Your husband is a great airman, it's a given, but what you don't seem to be able to accept is that regional airlines are replacing his type right now with Purdue graduates with less than 500 hours. They did not go through an exhaustive selection process, nor did they go through any elimination process if they were bad in training. Their parents just put up more cash to get them through and the end result is viewed the same by most commercial entities.

Netjets runs the same on days that I am at work or days that I am off. They don't need me at all. It's a hard reality, but it's true!

Good luck, I'm sorry I got so mad at you. You're obviously a very courageous person with a whole bunch of integrity.

See the world for what it is. Good luck trying to change it!

 

[netjetwife]

The Hawk and the Wife have found common ground.

Yes the airlines used 9-11 to rearrange their business plan, switching to an emphasis on regional planes/routes, and laying off many pilots in the process. My husband explained that whole scheme to me. We were disgusted at the plan to save already outrageous executive packages at AA while laying off pilots and forcing others to take pay cuts. My husband remarked just last night about what an asinine decision it was to buy TWA, while we were discussing the weak scope clause in the TA.

Absolutely, we see the need for strong leadership--the lack thereof, explains the mess we're in today! My husband complains bitterly about the "lack of vision" in the TA. He is volunteering his time and energy to help the new leaders get ready to assume command of the helm. I have watched him lead many pilots and enlisted folks and I trust his ability to recognize good leadership in others.

NetJets has offered a fatally flawed contract that must be scrapped. I've learned thru extensive remodeling projects that you can't paper over rotted walls or build on weak joists. It often does look worse before it gets better, but in the long run you have saved much money, labor and time by getting it right before you go forward. The final product has always been one that we were proud of and that would last. The fight for a fair contract fits the same approach. In their 2003 Berkshire-Hathaway Annual meeting, Buffet and Munger (sp?), his right hand man/partner bragged about NJA shaking out the competition and becoming a much bigger business...up to 10 times was WB's assessment. He also expressed great confidence in his partner, so I'd bet that CM could pick up the slack if WB is distracted by his grief. Additionally, the rapid expansion of NJ all around the world, shows a strong belief in the business itself.

NetJets DOES NEED YOU and all of the other experienced pilots. They have made a big selling point of the fact that they hire only the best, most experienced pilots. You guys are given TOP BILLING in company publications while offered subpar wages. They do WANT good pilots. It's up to the pilots (with support from their wives.....) to make them pay for the image they so constantly promote. Just imagine the outcry that would ensue if there was an accident because of pilot-error due to inexperience. That very thing is not uncommon in aviation. At the prices charged to the owners, they have every right to expect that they are safe from that experience. How much can NJA lower the standards without damaging their stellar reputation?

Bringing lessons learned from the military, be it how to organize families into a support/social group (me) or applying flying experience gained thru the AF (my husband) does NOT mean that we are living in the past. I am very involved in the NJW Club, not the OWC. In fact we stopped our O'Club membership/dues because we never go there anymore. The next function on my mind is a Pot Luck Dinner for our gateway families. Which reminds me that I have a flyer to design and email out to our Colorado families.

Have faith, Hawkered, I believe that our goal of a good, fair contract will be realized in the end. IF (very big if) not, we will move on like many other NJ families to something else. Either way, my husband and I will know that we did our part and will have no regrets about the role we played in this fight.


I am glad that we have reached an understanding. Now, more than ever, we ALL need to pull together.
LB/NJW

 

[Hawkered]

Last post.

NJ Wife and all,

It is time for me to get back to my "normal" life outside and away from this industry and this computer. This is my last post.

I still believe it is possible to vote yes, and watch what unfolds. The leadership of the union is toast. The T/A might make it through, it probably will if the company plays another trump card... a promise of open enrollment.

The union has pissed off enough people that the United Health Care program alone is enough of a vote for change.

We have all endured hardship, I know what it means to not see a loved one for seven months while being OS. The system needs to be changed. Strong Union might provide answers but not miracles. The answers might be the same ones we've already been told.

There are no guarantees. Some of you believe that the existing T/A is a guarantee if we go back to the table-it's not. All bets are off where we could end up!

A good gambler does not gamble more than he/she can afford to lose.

Farewell all, it's time for me to sit down.

 

[netjetwife]

Say it isn't so Hawkered!

It saddens me to "hear" that you will wind up on the wrong side of history, Hawkered, esp. when it seems as though your instincts are telling you otherwise. Word among those that are working the phones, is that the TA is doomed. It doesn't matter what the company does---how much make-up they put on this pig--everyone can see that it's still a PIG! Many, many families are voting to roll the dice. My professional negotiator friend tells me that the only 1st offers ever accepted are those that are truly win/win situations. We all know this TA is slanted overwhelmingly in the company's favor. AD also assures me that going back to the table brings increasingly better offers until fairness is achieved. We have a wife in our group that is a FA and the president of her MEC. She thinks the contract is pathetic and wholeheartedly supports fighting for more, based on her own experience w/the process. Additionally, we have a wife w/corporate management experience that has run the numbers for our group and shown what a joke the profit sharing is, and how unbalanced the distribution of labor funds is at the company. Pilots are 45% of total workers at NJA, but receive ONLY 25% of the money for wages, while the other 55% are getting 75% of available dollars. How can you possibly vote for that? On top of that insult, comes unfair work rules, CVR used for discipline, and serious possibilities of a job loss due to a bad scope clause.

Please consider standing with those who share your concerns, rather than the management that holds their pilotforce in low regard and a failed MEC that never bothered to ask the membership what they wanted.
NetJet Wife---just one of many voting NO to the TA
and YES for StrongUnion and a better future!

 

[flyingcpa]

NetJet Wife---just one of many voting NO to the TA
and YES for StrongUnion and a better future!


Do you really get to vote? I have never heard of spouses getting to vote. Isnt that rather unfair for the pilots that have a differnt view and are single? Also, it is absurd that you are preaching to one of the pilots on what he should sell his services for. See my post on market wages. Sorry hon, it doesnt matter how great you think hubby is, he is worth what other qualified, able and willing pilots will do the job for and not a penny more. what you are trying to do is change the value each pilot has for his/her service. Good luck, there are thousands on the street that would like your hubby's job for his same insulting salary.

 

[netjetwife]

completed below

 

[netjetwife]

Flyingcpa, I'll refer you to my posts that state the married pilots make all employment decisions jointly with their wives. Hence, one vote representing two voices. BTW, I did poll my group before posting that position.

Absurd? Your opinion, which is not agreed to by the majority of NJA pilots/wives who thank me for speaking out. What isn't shown here are the number of PMs offering support by pilots in AND OUT of NJA.

Industry averages are a measuring tool that can and should be used. I believe that all professional pilots should negotiate/receive wages which accurately reflect their contribution to the company they fly for.

Those "thousands on the street" are NOT beating down the door at NJA, many of those that are offered the job wind up turning it down-like my husband's F16 friend--while others that made it to training have walked out in disgust. I think you're selling them (potential NJA pilots) short.

 

[flyingcpa]

Industry averages are a measuring tool that can and should be used. I believe that all professional pilots should negotiate/receive wages.


Netjetswife,
I couldnt agree more. That is my point. If they are paying below market wages, (which it sounds like they are) then they will have a hard time retaining pilots and hiring them. Then they have to improve the job with more money, time off, bennies or some combination or they will run out of pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

Exactly, but in the meantime, the pilots can help that process along by demanding fair wages and work rules while negotiating their contract.