How did it go so wrong, so fast ?

[netjetwife]

Lots of Misunderstanding in your letter

Xrated, you are mis-stating my position. I NEVER said he deserves more because of those things--DFC, etc Absolutely, my friends husbands at NetJets deserve the same pay for the same job, just about all are underpaid there. I have posted that the ENTIRE TA is flawed across the board, is considered regressive in almost all areas and has serious QOL problems. I discussed money more because the posts that I replied to focused on it. The language in the contract that opens the door to a pilot being disciplned by what is found on the CVR is BAD NEWS for the whole industry, as is expecting a pilot to do part of the Recurrent Training at home for FREE. I do not consider making pilots be available by 2pm on their last day off to be really having the whole day off. There are many more, but I this should give you the idea.

I am NOT saying the decision was bad. It was a calculated risk that may well pay off. The money is there. Once again, you have misdiagnosed me. The frustration is because of corporate greed. I do NOT admire Warren Buffet. I do recognize his business acumen, but have no respect for how his employees are treated. Other successful businessmen do a better job of rewarding those who help build the business. I gave Michael Dell as an example. The shareholders are all pleased that NetJets is getting ready to make it big. The investments in the business are just starting to really take off. NJAmerica has been carrying NJEurope while they got it started. That's where the pilots' raises have gone. Now time to invest in the pilots, themselves. Wages are a cost of doing business--pay the pilots the industry average, at least. My internet research--that anyone could do--says that the fractional industry will keep growing, in light of terrorism and increased hassles/delays in airports that is a logical conclusion. All of the pilots in the business should want to see the NetJets pilots get a good contract, and raise the bar for all of them.

I posted earlier that he may not stay in aviation at all. His resume speaks for itself--no one has ever gotten him a job. If he did choose to keep flying, his friends would be happy to recommend him because he's a great pilot AND a really nice guy. He'd not like it any better than you that I bragged on him---though, I was more trying to establish the level of quality NetJets is getting from him as a pilot/instructor/diplomat to their wealthy owners...all for chump change. He helped the company to grow, now it is time for them to make good on their promise to ALL of the pilots. The MEC has been telling the pilots for a year that "Kick-Ass" pay was going to be theirs....industry leading contract...great scope clause, improved work rules, etc. Their own union leaders sold them out---more frustration, there. ALL of the wives are upset.

I think you're being a little harsh. Comments about my husband's talent, etc were scattered throughout several long posts. It is sad and ironic that in trying to establish his credibility, you say I hurt it. I am guilty of having a wife's pride , not of "ranting". The Academy references were necessary to help explain not being able to go to JetBlue. That perplexed many. I compared flying for the majors to point out that he works harder than he did there, but likes it BETTER flying the Excel. That was not bragging and/or putting down fractional pilots. He tells me they work harder and have much more responsibility.

Are you by any chance an ex-military pilot yourself? I know that in the AF there was a problem of jealousy between the "heavies" and fighters. Perhaps some of that colored your response to my posts? Whatever the reason, it is something I'll keep in mind should I ever post on an aviation board again. Once more, my husband NEVER talks about his military flying. And he certainly doesn't piss people off, as you insinuated. Do you have something against officers--or is it just wives that "wear their husbands rank"? You're really wrong about us, on both counts.

The coming months should be very interesting, I hope that you'll be pulling for ALL of the pilots at NetJets and their families. Good Luck in your career and best wishes to your wife and children--it's a tough lifestyle.
LaVonn

 

[slowto250]

You go girl !

To Netjetwife,
I know you must feel foolish having to defend your obvious pride and adulation for a husband whose qualifications speak volumes about his character and skill. Please don't. Our industry (professional flying), has suffered through a very lengthy dowturn. The cycle, I believe, has recently reached bottom, and will rebound in the next several years. Tell hubby to keep the faith. Having endured the anti-union genius of Frank Lorenzo (aviation's anti-christ), I can honestly say that there is life after scheduled carrier employment. Do I have one of those cush corporate jobs, with more time off than I know what to do with ? No. However, I now make @ twice what I did as a 4 year EAL F/O, while working about the same number of days per month. Sure do miss those B scale wages ! Hang in there.

 

[netjetwife]

You've restored my faith, sir.

Slowto250, thanks for the kind words and support, both of which are in short supply around here sometimes--or so it seems. Part of my problem is in making the transition from the military-flying culture to the civilian-flying world. Posting on this board has certainly been a learning experience! Best Wishes, LaVonn

 

[DrRaptor]

I also lend my support to everyone and echo the comments that things are getting better.

I know a lot of people speak down of Air Tahoma on these boards, but the new pay structure that Noel put in place only a scant few months ago measurably improved the base pay, and made it possible for first-year FO's on both our CV-580 and CV-240 to make pretty decent money compared to other airline if they're willing to put in the time (20-22 days a month on duty, but not necessarily flying), which puts us 3 of 6 compared to the 5 other airlines that I have numbers for who fly similar sized aircraft (ATR, DASH-8) on the high end of their pay potential, and 5 of 6 on the low end of the pay potential, but still much better than at airlines flying aircraft smaller than ours.

Things are starting to improve on the smaller end of the spectrum while the high end is unfortunately having to deal with the problems with mis-management and overflow from the "boom years" in the 1990s when too many people (individuals and groups) tried to keep things high when things got lean. But it's not just in the US that these problems exist. It's happening all over the World, and hopefully we'll see a few years of problems at the top, everything sort itself out, and then be back to better times with the pay getting to where it should be.

 

[Cardinal]

the ENTIRE TA is flawed across the board, is considered regressive in almost all areas and has serious QOL problems. . . The language in the contract that opens the door to a pilot being disciplned by what is found on the CVR is BAD NEWS for the whole industry

If only more pilots had this kind of intelligent, informed support at home. Heck, the industry would be better if the pilot's themselves had similar backbone, and awareness of precedent setting issues. This is a wife that can help raise the bar. Kudos to netjetwife.

 

[Hawkered]

No this is someone who should have planned her family's retirement away from the vagaries of commercial aviation. She should have also learned to budget and not spend all her time at the O.C.

 

[TORCH67]

Hawkered for MEC chairman!!! Please post your name so that we can vote for someone with such vision and understanding. Sorry, forgot you dont get involved with antiquated organizations. Let us know when you get that view of the Atlantic ocean that you talk about. My guess is that it will be from somewhere within 90 miles of Sewark NJ.

NetJetswife is passionate and proactive. You may not agree with her views, but don't stifle her motivation. Netjets pilots just want to be paid a fair wage for a fair days work. Remember as emoitional as it gets, it's just business. Vote what you feel you can accept, work hard and don't lower your standards. The owners pay their Mgmt fees and hourly fees just like their contracts say. We need to deliver the same service that we agreed to when we hired on. If you can't do that then it's time to move on to a new job. This fight is not with the owners!!!! I love the flying we do at Netjets, and hope to do it for a long time. I also hope that I can get paid enough to support my family the way I hope. When those two don't meet I will move on.

Bottom line, be civil and respect other peoples views.

P.S. This post was checked for illegal and terrorist like statements. It was found to be safe and non-threatening.

 

[netjetwife]

Sometimes to raise the bar you have to raise your voice.

Hawkered, are you not able to discuss the ISSUES without resorting to personal insults? I complain about the low pay that FOs receive as being unjust for ALL in that position. Lack of job security, CVR used for discipline language, and work rules that make a difficult job near unbearable, are contract problems that NO pilot should be subjected to. There are inequities in the industry and I firmly believe in EVERYONE affected taking an active role in improving the situation for ALL pilots--and their families.

Our oldest son started college this year, paid for w/savings from the AF career. It is much harder now to save for his brother's and sister's education, but a professional pilot OUGHT to be able to provide for his children's education--where ever he works. My complaints about the pay are for all pilots' families and are not always a reflection of my family's financial situation, alone. I am privvy to the struggle faced by many other families and my statements are based on that knowledge .

Your derogatory comments regarding officers' wives are an insult to all military families past and present, who have sacrificed much in the service of our country.

Cardinal and DrRaptor, thank you for your support and recognition of the role played by the wives, who back their husbands 100% in their endeavors to achieve fairness in the workplace.

 

[Hawkered]

Okay, Netjet Wife. I promised quite a few people to stop being mean on these message boards so here is my first attempt.

First of all, I am very grateful for the efforts of your husband and those who have served in the most rcent conflicts as well. I do not agree with John Kerry about anything and would fund the military better and have served the present theater with at least an extra 100,000 troops. I am well aware of sacrifice, I grew up without a father due to military service and his being a POW. (The Kerry stickers and posters at he union hall make me boil.)

Your husband does deserve better. We all deserve better.


I have a three-fold problem here.

1) Non members logging on to the union message board.

2) An MEC that promised so much and delivered so little.

3) A union that allowed a bunch of Eastern scabs to get employment and membership here.


You talk about character and I'm sure you and your entire family have it in boat loads. The problem is, as X-rated has already stated, that many people paid for their jobs here in the first place.

Your first class seats at American became empty when the price of a private jet became unrealistically low. We now have consumers of this product with caviar tastes hoping to consume at fast-food prices.

Figure this simple model:

Pay for training:

$8,500

Hotels

$2000

First year salary:

$28,000 minus $10,500, or $17,500.

That was the perceived value of our expertise by the bean counters.

"I have met the enemy, the enemy is us".

 

[Hawkered]

Hey Torch,

Yepper, I'll be pulling up my new yacht here shortly as soon as I get those kick backs that the company promised me, arrive. Let's get that conspiracy theory rolling, huh?

If we go in-house I might consider it!