How can you tell a pilot from an FA at Comair???

[Holy Shiite]

Did anyone consider the probability that this village idiot is not even on a seniority list anywhere, or is a Mgt puke?

Bingo... this guy is nothing but an a$$wipe attorney. He is no pilot. Just a selfish jerk who would sell his own Mom for the right price. Go crawl back under your rock now dip$hit. HS

 

[cl65capt]

Both Comair and Delta FA's are represent by AFA! The Delta FA's will not become Scabs!!! Comair will have to hire FA's off the street to be scab replacements!! You won't see any Delta FA's working at Comair!! Nice try!! And you believed that???? Sad!

Ummmm, last time I checked Delta FA's were non union. I agree with what your saying but I dont think Delta FA's have a union and I believe Comair FA's are Teamsters, not AFA.

 

[doh]

cl65capt,
You are correct. Delta FAs are non-union and CMRs are teamsters. According to what Fred Buttrell said at his last talk at the G.O., the FAs will not be replaced. He said that an FA strike would result in liquidation. I got a new job and a wife who can pay all our bills, so I am less worried than most.
Since every one who actually works at CMR knows this, my take is that D'Ouchelo is not on our list. Feel free to ignore him. I remember what the FAs did for us during the strike, so count me in if they need me.

 

[WSurf]

Your right, I think they (Delta's FA's) are in the process of joining the AFA!

 

[Broke in CVG]

The latest from the Teamsters is they will not shut the place down and walk off, but will try a CAOS time strike....

 

[WSurf]

Yes, CAOS.... Striking random flights!!

 

[D'Angelo]

Bingo... this guy is nothing but an a$$wipe attorney. He is no pilot. Just a selfish jerk who would sell his own Mom for the right price. Go crawl back under your rock now dip$hit. HS

Attorney? I think not you give me much to credit my friend. So what I don't drink the union garbage. Its nothing but a corrupt organization. So I try and show people how to impeach their union. Its someones right to decertify a union if they so chose. Maybe your all just scared because there are a lot more than you think that are sick of being forced to pay dues/fees via agency shop. All it takes is 50% +1 to get one in and 50%+1 to get one out. Now if you will excuse me its time to see if there is any open time for april in CVG.

 

[B727FA]

Both Comair and Delta FA's are represent by AFA! The Delta FA's will not become Scabs!!! Comair will have to hire FA's off the street to be scab replacements!! You won't see any Delta FA's working at Comair!! Nice try!! And you believed that???? Sad!

The FA's at OH are IBT and the FA's at DL are NOT represented at all. Nice try WSurf.

Secondly, even if they COULD come over, the DL FA's would need more than 7 hrs transition. It is a different certificate and one CAN'T just "come over and learn the new plane." Now, the transition from one fleet to another (say 737 to 757 is about 5 hrs--door differences, equipment, etc.) is doable in 5-10 hrs. But it's not even the same airline.

Finally, as much as pilots are loath to admit, FA's actually DO go through training and it's not a "hocus-pocus you're a flight attendant" type thing. There are FAA required hrs and curriculum that must be met. Also, OH can't have an "abreviated" training to break the strike without the FAA approving the program. Trust me, the FAA is NOT going to approve a REDUCED training program for a "bankrupt" and struck carrier.

The MINIMUM time the FAA approves:
40 hrs Initial Indoc
10 hrs First Aid/Medical
10 hrs Security
5 hrs HazMat/Restricted Articles
15 hrs FAR's
15 hrs Emergency Situations/Fire/Cabin Prep/IROPS
5 hrs Evac/Ditching/Survival
5 hrs IOE

That's 105 hrs of BASIC training. I know OH has more than that, too. That doesn't take into consideration different fleets (50 seat/70 seat). Even if they went 10 hrs a day that's at least 10 days of training. It's not going to happen. And, who's going to train them? The instructors at OH are IBT represented!

Again, nice try...

 

[B727FA]

Your right, I think they (Delta's FA's) are in the process of joining the AFA!

Nope. AFA is not making another run at this time. Try again...

 

[B727FA]

The latest from the Teamsters is they will not shut the place down and walk off, but will try a CAOS time strike....

Yes, CAOS.... Striking random flights!!

Well, actually, guys...CHAOS (Create Havoc Around Our System) is an AFA self-help system. They legally own the term and the process. That doesn't mean that an IBT local couldn't engage in a "similar self-help action" but they can't call it "CHAOS." They'd also have to be VERY careful that if the strike were even ruled to be legal (which we're still not sure if it is) that they don't engage in wildcats strikes (essentially CHAOS). I think they'll have to either go all out and walk out or buckle.

Next...

 

[Caveman]

I think Buttrell is staring at a lose-lose deal. If the judge tosses the FA contract (I don't think he will) the CMR FA will walk and the pilots will actively support them. If the judge affirms the contract as I believe he will, Buttrell will somehow have to 'save' the airline despite not getting the $8.9 mil from the FA. The FA have nothing to lose. The job is barely compensated adequately now. They aren't gonna do it for 30% less. The FA will hold the line and call CMR's bluff and they'll win. Buttrell will fold at the last minute. He has to. Buttrell and Ma Delta are not going to let CMR go down the tubes for the sake of $8.9 million bucks. No way, no how.

 

[WSurf]

Yea I knew it would take along time to train a bunch of FA's!! Thank god for MidPacific Air and his knowledge of the FA training!!

 

[ReverseSensing]

B727FA:

Thanks for posting some accurate information.

Best of luck to everyone at Comair, except D'angelo (if you're really even there). Hope someone shoves you off the curb in front of the employee bus. Hope the bus is moving fast at the time, too.

 

[B727FA]

No worries, friends! Let's keep it together out there...

Those Trolly Dollies are making a go of it, eh? I'm proud of them and say, "Give 'em Hell!"

Notice how when the strike vote came out at 93% the Company "all of a sudden" was able to reduce the "MUST HAVE" 24% reduction to 16%? Hmmmmmmm...

Like Caveman said, there is NO way OH and DL will let 8.9 kill them...not going to happen. MGT will cave...on some level.

 

[CheapFlyer]

I think Buttrell is staring at a lose-lose deal. If the judge tosses the FA contract (I don't think he will) the CMR FA will walk and the pilots will actively support them. If the judge affirms the contract as I believe he will, Buttrell will somehow have to 'save' the airline despite not getting the $8.9 mil from the FA. The FA have nothing to lose. The job is barely compensated adequately now. They aren't gonna do it for 30% less. The FA will hold the line and call CMR's bluff and they'll win. Buttrell will fold at the last minute. He has to. Buttrell and Ma Delta are not going to let CMR go down the tubes for the sake of $8.9 million bucks. No way, no how.

I believe Buttrell didn't think the FA's were going to put up so much of a fight. My take is that they will meet somewhere in the middle at the last minute before mediation. Due to some new hocus pocus math formula Buttrell will still claim he his saving 8.9 million a year. Then a few months later a small order of 700's and then Comair will be sold off. Buttrell will then go play with with his buds in ATL with millions in the bank.

 

[Caveman]

My take is that they will meet somewhere in the middle at the last minute before mediation. Due to some new hocus pocus math formula Buttrell will still claim he his saving 8.9 million a year.

I think you're absolutly right.

 

[doh]

Well, actually, guys...CHAOS (Create Havoc Around Our System) is an AFA self-help system. They legally own the term and the process. That doesn't mean that an IBT local couldn't engage in a "similar self-help action" but they can't call it "CHAOS." They'd also have to be VERY careful that if the strike were even ruled to be legal (which we're still not sure if it is) that they don't engage in wildcats strikes (essentially CHAOS). I think they'll have to either go all out and walk out or buckle.

Next...

I appreciate your shedding some light on the process of training and certification. I am going to disagree about the legallity of a job action though. The courts have said several times that they don't have the authority to enjoin a strike if there is no contract. Status quo also does not apply because you are not engaged in section 6 negotiations. About the only thing you would not be able to do would be use the name "CHAOS". Considering that you could earn as much in virtually any other job, I believe that I would take a chance on striking. Hence the die at the top of the post.

 

[B727FA]

Hi Doh,

I think I misspoke in my post. While there is not yet a 100% definitive ruling on the legality of the strike...in other words it may or may not be legal...but like you said, at this point, why should they care? There's nothing left for them to lose. We're saying essentially the same thing...you said it better. Have a great day!

 

[cmrflyer]

The best way to tell a comair flight attendant is the fact that they make more money than a mesa or chq FO. They aren't weak bitch*s like comair pilots, they value their $25000 a year job (god knows why).
Unlike a mesa or chq pilot they have some standards. Low, but standards.

 

[doh]

Oh, you are going straight to sensitivity training for that one mister!:laugh:

 

[cmrflyer]

Sorry ,that had to be said, before those bar lowering wankers (50.9 percent comair,100 percent all other DCI pilots), tried to turn the tables. Comair fought hard for three years to keep "our" wages near where they should be, we were undermined by every othere tosser, who though it was "cool" to fly a jet.
Stop all your bitching, you all caused these "wages", not us, we are now just a by product of your stupidity and greed.

 

[D'Angelo]

Sorry ,that had to be said, before those bar lowering wankers (50.9 percent comair,100 percent all other DCI pilots), tried to turn the tables. Comair fought hard for three years to keep "our" wages near where they should be, we were undermined by every othere tosser, who though it was "cool" to fly a jet.
Stop all your bitching, you all caused these "wages", not us, we are now just a by product of your stupidity and greed.

Actually greed is exactly what got all these mainline people in the situations they are in. If they had met in the middle instead of demanding the world we all wouldnt be in paycut city. This is a good lesson however that it is more important to be a person in the middle than an extremist on either side. You demand too much as soon as bad times hit pay is the first to go. Thats the problem with union politics. They never think ahead of the game. They negotiated as if times were going to be robust forever. Times are never robust forever in this buisness. You negotiate with more caution then you know what you can live on and don't have to whine about paycuts later. They always have to get more than the last contract why because of ego. Cost of living allowance you say? Thats what your yearly raises are for my friends.

 

[Shobra]

listen........ you can hear D' (dickhead) pass gas everytime he/she posts. That's because all he/she writes is stinky hot air. yuk

 

[sweptback]

Sorry ,that had to be said, before those bar lowering wankers (50.9 percent comair,100 percent all other DCI pilots), tried to turn the tables.

Sorry guys, ASA never took a paycut or even concessions of any kind. We turned down multiple requests to do so, most notably the last 50-seat RFP. If you want to call being handcuffed by the stonewalling of Ford and Harrison a concession that's your right, but thanks to the NMB and the RLA we have no say in it. Thanks to you guys (among others) our contract goals are limited now.

Our FO rates are considered quite good now (which is really sad) because we still have a spilt 200/700 rate, especially after you guys took concessions and further legitimatized the single rate. Our captain rates still lag a little bit but that's because our contract was from freaking 1998 (and was industry leading back then too).

You guys need to figure out who your enemies are... your story keeps changing. Nobody forced you to take the first round of cuts, yet they passed overwhelmingly.

 

[wmuflyguy]

And being bought by skywest, The pioneer of one rate, hasn't limited your contract?

 

[cmrflyer]

sweptback

Oh, no. Keep on dreaming. While our contract was far beyond what you will ever get, you guys sat back and said "we want what they have" (for four years).Yet when we were approached by mgt four times, we sad no(before 50.9 percent of the people here (read academy) vote yes to pay cuts).
We had pilots forced on to the street, planes taken away and handed over to other airlines, 5000 block hours in CVG alone take from us (and give to turds like chq), yet we are supposed to accept it (it being the horse sh!t contracts you have). Don't buckle, fight, fight , fight.
Yet there are companies out there that have sat on thier contracts for four years, pointing fingers , doing nothing, but yet taking the flying.
I pray DALPA strikes and put us out of our misery. Maybe they will have the balls we all should have.

 

[cmrflyer]

Thanks to you guys (among others) our contract goals are limited now.

Thanks to you and everyone who decided not to follow us (to decent contacts), ours is even more limited.
Thanks for all your help.

 

[Shobra]

And being bought by skywest, The pioneer of one rate, hasn't limited your contract?

Sorry. You are wrong on this one. ALL of Mesaba's FO have been at one rate since 96. They signed it back then, and then signed it again with their last contract. It's also not a blended rate either.

 

[D'Angelo]

Sorry guys, ASA never took a paycut or even concessions of any kind. We turned down multiple requests to do so, most notably the last 50-seat RFP. If you want to call being handcuffed by the stonewalling of Ford and Harrison a concession that's your right, but thanks to the NMB and the RLA we have no say in it. Thanks to you guys (among others) our contract goals are limited now.

Our FO rates are considered quite good now (which is really sad) because we still have a spilt 200/700 rate, especially after you guys took concessions and further legitimatized the single rate. Our captain rates still lag a little bit but that's because our contract was from freaking 1998 (and was industry leading back then too).

You guys need to figure out who your enemies are... your story keeps changing. Nobody forced you to take the first round of cuts, yet they passed overwhelmingly.

When you guys are last in categorys such as on time you whine how its not your fault and blame everyone else. When it comes to other things such as this you also scream and blame anybody but yourself. Quit whining and pointing the finger. You either get a deal done or you dont. We did what we had to do to survive now its your turn to do the same. Adapt or die thats the name of the game! Its time to be accountable for your own actions and stop trying to blame everyone like a toddler would.

 

[acaTerry]

ANSWER FOUND HERE

BWAW HAW HAW!