How about managing your way out of this mess, instead?

[Ty Webb]

After looking at the proposed UAL pay rates, it seems pretty obvious that the idea of pilot give-backs is ridiculous.

These pay rates have a UAL 737 Capt. making less than an AirTran 737 Captain, yet UAL will still lose money. Seems to me that enough is enough.

It's pretty clear that poor management is the culprit, not pilot wages, and this "experiment" ought to prove it once and for all.

At least Legacy pilots in future negotiations will be able to point at the UAL and USAirways concessions and say, "Pilot concessions didn't save USAirways, nor UAL, and we're not going to try that experiment here. You're going to have to actually manage your way out of this".

 

[blzr]

Yeah, lets hear it for Tilton giving up 6% of his pay. That'll really affect his back pocket. Whay doesn't he and the rest of upper management take the same cut that the pilots and f/A's take?

 

[On Your Six]

United - from first to worst... I actually feel bad for my former colleagues who are still there despite the fact that I got furloughed.... Let's hope for a mild winter because a cold winter on the East Coast means higher oil prices and UAL's potential doom...

 

[furlough-boy]

Yeah, lets hear it for Tilton giving up 6% of his pay. That'll really affect his back pocket. Whay doesn't he and the reat of upper management take the same cut that the pilots and f/A's take?

Tilton is taking a 15% paycut (11%+4%) as well as all the other non-union/managemnet employees.

United Airlines Imposes Wage Reductions
Monday December 13, 6:47 pm ET
By Dave Carpenter, AP Business Writer

United Airlines Imposes Wage Reductions on Its 8,500 Nonunion Employees, Top Executives

CHICAGO (AP) -- United Airlines took a first step toward achieving the additional labor savings it seeks in bankruptcy, imposing wage reductions on its 8,500 nonunion employees that include an 11 percent pay cut for CEO Glenn Tilton and other top executives.

The airline, owned by UAL Corp., told employees on a company hot line Monday that the cuts will account for $112 million of the $725 million a year in labor savings it needs.

They do not include an additional 4 percent temporary reduction in salary that will take effect with the permanent cuts on Jan. 1 and remain in place until United emerges from bankruptcy. The nation's No. 2 carrier has not specified a target date for its exit from Chapter 11, but with the industry still in financial turmoil that is now not expected until next fall.

"We believe that this is a fair and equitable way to achieve the immediate cost savings necessary to exit bankruptcy," United spokeswoman Jean Medina said. "We are building a company that can succeed in a leaner, more competitive market and provide opportunity and value to our employees."

Tilton's salary will now be $605,625 as of Jan. 1, Medina said. He previously reduced his $845,500 annual pay by 16 percent in August when United accelerated its push for labor cuts.

Pay cuts also will be 11 percent for the seven top executives who report to Tilton, along with 8 percent for officers, 6 percent for management employees and 4 percent for salaried workers. The 4 percent temporary cuts will be applied to the lowered amounts.

The Elk Grove Village, Ill.-based airline also said it is devising new benefit plans for the nonunion employees that could affect medical and dental programs, vacation and holiday schedules and sick leave.

United said it will achieve the rest of its savings for salaried and management employees through productivity enhancements totaling at least $30 million annually. It did not specify the savings.

Management remains in difficult negotiations with its unions over the bulk of the labor cuts, hoping it does not have to ask a bankruptcy judge to put them into effect next month in lieu of an agreement.

Analysts say widespread dissension or work stoppages over the cuts -- which follow last year's double-digit pay reductions -- could cost United customers and risk putting it out of business.

Also Monday, UAL named David Wing its new controller. Wing formerly was chief financial officer of ATA Airlines and previously worked at American Airlines.

 

[capt. megadeth]

Um, the guy should be taking a greater than 50% paycut...he still wouldn't be able to spend all of his money in a lifetime.

Tilton is taking a 15% paycut (11%+4%) as well as all the other non-union/managemnet employees.

United Airlines Imposes Wage Reductions
Monday December 13, 6:47 pm ET
By Dave Carpenter, AP Business Writer

United Airlines Imposes Wage Reductions on Its 8,500 Nonunion Employees, Top Executives

CHICAGO (AP) -- United Airlines took a first step toward achieving the additional labor savings it seeks in bankruptcy, imposing wage reductions on its 8,500 nonunion employees that include an 11 percent pay cut for CEO Glenn Tilton and other top executives.

The airline, owned by UAL Corp., told employees on a company hot line Monday that the cuts will account for $112 million of the $725 million a year in labor savings it needs.

They do not include an additional 4 percent temporary reduction in salary that will take effect with the permanent cuts on Jan. 1 and remain in place until United emerges from bankruptcy. The nation's No. 2 carrier has not specified a target date for its exit from Chapter 11, but with the industry still in financial turmoil that is now not expected until next fall.

"We believe that this is a fair and equitable way to achieve the immediate cost savings necessary to exit bankruptcy," United spokeswoman Jean Medina said. "We are building a company that can succeed in a leaner, more competitive market and provide opportunity and value to our employees."

Tilton's salary will now be $605,625 as of Jan. 1, Medina said. He previously reduced his $845,500 annual pay by 16 percent in August when United accelerated its push for labor cuts.

Pay cuts also will be 11 percent for the seven top executives who report to Tilton, along with 8 percent for officers, 6 percent for management employees and 4 percent for salaried workers. The 4 percent temporary cuts will be applied to the lowered amounts.

The Elk Grove Village, Ill.-based airline also said it is devising new benefit plans for the nonunion employees that could affect medical and dental programs, vacation and holiday schedules and sick leave.

United said it will achieve the rest of its savings for salaried and management employees through productivity enhancements totaling at least $30 million annually. It did not specify the savings.

Management remains in difficult negotiations with its unions over the bulk of the labor cuts, hoping it does not have to ask a bankruptcy judge to put them into effect next month in lieu of an agreement.

Analysts say widespread dissension or work stoppages over the cuts -- which follow last year's double-digit pay reductions -- could cost United customers and risk putting it out of business.

Also Monday, UAL named David Wing its new controller. Wing formerly was chief financial officer of ATA Airlines and previously worked at American Airlines.

 

[The_Russian]

I can actually say I agree with Ty on something!

How can the productivity of the airline be blamed on the Pilots, F/A's, and other workers, when they have no part in the managerial angles the company takes. Don't the UAL employees own at least 51% of the company? Correct me if I am wrong but that gives them control of UAL's destination.

Overall, paycuts for crew and station workers are bullsh!t. We as a pilot group (all airlines) need to petition our government for some sort of protection against this obvious attack by managment to lower the quality and sanctity of our profession.

 

[pilotyip]

Did not the union contract of 2000 set productivity rates that put UAL in its present pickle?

 

[Clyde]

Did not the union contract of 2000 set productivity rates that put UAL in its present pickle?

No. The company was very profitable when that contract was signed. The big factors contributing to UAL's present downward spiral are:

POOR CUSTOMER SERVICE:
With all of the growing, UAL (and some others for that matter) seemed to forget where it's bread and butter came from. i.e., charging a last-minute passenger quadruple what a 2-week advanced purchase would cost. UAL execs were pretty careless in making this a large part of their revenue plan in their business model.

LEVERAGING:
With higher revenues and more profits, UAL execs decided the best thing they could do was expand and expand fast. They didn't have the capital on hand to do it as much as they wanted, so they borrowed and borrowed heavily. They forgot that this business is cyclical and the airline industry historically has lost more money than it has made since it's conception.

ECONOMIC FACTORS:
Recessions hit and PAX airlines are usually the first to feel the brunt of it. It's during these times that a good cushion of cash and a low debt burden will make an airline more likely to survive. This is the current nightmare scenario reminding UAL execs that hindsight is always 20/20. I'll bet they are wishing they would have saved and paid-off rather than borrow and purchase.

LOW COST CARRIERS:
Southwest has always given the legacy's a run for their money, but haven't always been a direct threat to a legacy's survival. However, inject a dozen or more small low-cost carriers on the scene to compete in addition to the already large and growing Southwest Airlines and the net effect is a very serious threat to a legacy carrier with a high debt load.

If the pilots' salaries were such a big culprit, the already troubled legacies should be showing large profits by now. Instead, they are still losing a lot of money at record rates. Realistically, you had some very incompetent, over-confident managers and execs who thought the dark skies in the airline industry were well over. Well, to their surprise, they were just beginning, and they will hang around until the legacies figure out a successful management program.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Yeah, lets hear it for Tilton giving up 6% of his pay. That'll really affect his back pocket. Whay doesn't he and the reat of upper management take the same cut that the pilots and f/A's take?

Tilton and the uber elitist don't care how much a gallon of gas cost, as well as a gallon of milk......

 

[pilotyip]

Clyde you answered your own answer

Yes they were very profitable prior to the 2000 contract. After they were backed into a corner and signed the contract they had to find a way to pay for this contract. Increased volume was seen as the only way to generate the revenue to pay for the contract. This did not happen prior to de-reg because of the Mutual Aid pact. Mutual Aid was a revenue sharing pact between airlines to provide money to an airline shut down by a strike. When mutual aid was eliminated as part of de-reg it gave the unions too much power over management because the airline could not stand a prolonged work stoppage. This forced management to accept contracts that were not in the best interest of the long-range health of the airline. I know that on a pilot board this veiw will not be shared by many.