How a REAL union operates! FLOPS IBT take notes

[Voice Of Reason]

Rather than destroy the perception of their own pilots and spend time on engaging in one-up sandbox/ego/revenge fights with mgt. Flops IBT should take notes on THIS:
----------------------------------
UAL ALPA full page newspaper ad
Chicago Tribune, 01-01-08

The professional pilots of United Airlines would like to apologize to the traveling public for United Airlines’ deficiencies during this Holiday Season.

The pilots of United Airlines sympathize with our travelers’ plights earlier this week. Many of our pilots did not make it home to share the holidays with their loved ones either. United may blame this week’s flight cancellations on poor weather in the
Midwest, but, as most of our competitors demonstrated, the real culprit was United’s
lack of manpower – attempting to fly more with fewer employees – all at your expense.

United has been an all-weather airline for more than 80 years. We pioneered many of the safety innovations such as onboard weather radar, anti-skid
brakes, better weather forecasting and improved navigation instruments that allow operation in inclement weather all over the world. Until recently, we have been able to efficiently handle weather events in the Midwest and throughout the world without major disruptions.

Over the last few years, however, United has had to endure a management team that is bent on personal profit over customer service. They have pared employee staffing to the bare minimum, making them unable to respond to even well-anticipated weather
events.

Many of our pilots work to the FAA maximum limits every month, all year long. We have repeatedly warned United’s management that they do not have the crew resources to staff our airline adequately and have repeatedly asked them to discuss these shortcomings. So far they have declined to do so.

Instead, they diverted $750 million of cash payouts so that they may receive personal stock dividends of
$2,196,165. The top five United off icers received a combined salary between $65,983,879 and $100,850,809 in 2006.

We believe your holiday travel experiences would have been much better this week if they had used that money on the airline instead of on themselves.
United Airlines is our livelihood and our source of pride. We are here for the duration and we are here for you. We are disappointed in the way you, our valued customers, were treated by United’s management.
You deserve better from a world-class airline.

Signed,

The Pilots of United Airlines
United Chapter, Air Line Pilots Association
9550 W. Higgins Road, Suite 1000
Rosemont, Illinois 60018
847-292-1700
----------------------
Change the Trib to WSJ, United to Flops pilots, the union should be doing a similar letter to FLOPS OWNERS in the WSJ (HIG would see as well).
Nooooo....that might actually WORK...owners knowing all that is going on...how little the pilots now make and how that is affecting what type of pilots get hired...etc, etc...
You KNOW what you SHOULD be doing, and yet, YEARS after the vote...NOTHING this EASY and effective. FLOPS owners would be FARRRRR more moved by a PROPERLY worded letter than the general public, that is for sure. Emphasis on PROPERLY worded (as to how it affects THEM, and how they were sold a bill of goods as the "highest paid pilots, etc etc)
WAKE UP!:smash:

 

[WabiSabi]

Rather than destroy the perception of their own pilots and spend time on engaging in one-up sandbox/ego/revenge fights with mgt. Flops IBT should take notes on THIS:
----------------------------------
UAL ALPA full page newspaper ad
Chicago Tribune, 01-01-08

The professional pilots of United Airlines would like to apologize to the traveling public for United Airlines’ deficiencies during this Holiday Season.

The pilots of United Airlines sympathize with our travelers’ plights earlier this week. Many of our pilots did not make it home to share the holidays with their loved ones either. United may blame this week’s flight cancellations on poor weather in the
Midwest, but, as most of our competitors demonstrated, the real culprit was United’s
lack of manpower – attempting to fly more with fewer employees – all at your expense.

United has been an all-weather airline for more than 80 years. We pioneered many of the safety innovations such as onboard weather radar, anti-skid
brakes, better weather forecasting and improved navigation instruments that allow operation in inclement weather all over the world. Until recently, we have been able to efficiently handle weather events in the Midwest and throughout the world without major disruptions.

Over the last few years, however, United has had to endure a management team that is bent on personal profit over customer service. They have pared employee staffing to the bare minimum, making them unable to respond to even well-anticipated weather
events.

Many of our pilots work to the FAA maximum limits every month, all year long. We have repeatedly warned United’s management that they do not have the crew resources to staff our airline adequately and have repeatedly asked them to discuss these shortcomings. So far they have declined to do so.

Instead, they diverted $750 million of cash payouts so that they may receive personal stock dividends of
$2,196,165. The top five United off icers received a combined salary between $65,983,879 and $100,850,809 in 2006.

We believe your holiday travel experiences would have been much better this week if they had used that money on the airline instead of on themselves.
United Airlines is our livelihood and our source of pride. We are here for the duration and we are here for you. We are disappointed in the way you, our valued customers, were treated by United’s management.
You deserve better from a world-class airline.

Signed,

The Pilots of United Airlines
United Chapter, Air Line Pilots Association
9550 W. Higgins Road, Suite 1000
Rosemont, Illinois 60018
847-292-1700
----------------------
Change the Trib to WSJ, United to Flops pilots, the union should be doing a similar letter to FLOPS OWNERS in the WSJ (HIG would see as well).
Nooooo....that might actually WORK...owners knowing all that is going on...how little the pilots now make and how that is affecting what type of pilots get hired...etc, etc...
You KNOW what you SHOULD be doing, and yet, YEARS after the vote...NOTHING this EASY and effective. FLOPS owners would be FARRRRR more moved by a PROPERLY worded letter than the general public, that is for sure. Emphasis on PROPERLY worded (as to how it affects THEM, and how they were sold a bill of goods as the "highest paid pilots, etc etc)
WAKE UP!:smash:

What the fu????

You are making a connection that doesn't exist. My first thought was apples and oranges. However, even those aren't far enough apart. It is more like apples and the price of olives in Athens in 1381.

Man, you and your FLOPS management puppeteers are really desperate!

 

[Voice Of Reason]

:uzi:

What the fu????
You are making a connection that doesn't exist. My first thought was apples and oranges. However, even those aren't far enough apart. It is more like apples and the price of olives in Athens in 1381.
Man, you and your FLOPS management puppeteers are really desperate!

Typical ineffective and incompetent response.
Lose the junior high crew like this and do something EFFECTIVE (like the UAL ALPA example) with dues. Do you really think the owners are going to jump on the pilots side by seeing JUNIOR HIGH materials lying around, or by seeing a professionally written explanation of just what is actually going on?
It's a simple deal, but you'd rather just tell everyone to QUIT???? That's the PLAN???
Gahd help us ALL if it is.
I don't WANT to see the union fail (like so many "supporters" on here seem to want to)... so WTFing LACK of something like what UAL did?

It is MOST CERTAINLY *NOT* apples and oranges...in fact it would be MORE effective in this case.

The grim reaper bs is not only immature, little boy bs, but offputting to whoever sees it.

NOT the attention we WANT to be seen as PROFESSIONALS.

How about refraining from ignorant clutter like WabiSabi et al, and posting "better" IDEAS? Better yet DON'T post them if it needs to be a big "secret" for whatever reason...TELL the leaders!

They obviously NEED them!

 

[dime line]

And who is gonna pay for this ad? You Voice? R U paid in full?

Just so you know...I do like the idea and wish we could afford it.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

I have an idea

And who is gonna pay for this ad? You Voice? R U paid in full?

Yes, in addition to a VERY lengthy list of others, so this should be chump change. If it's such a hardship, maybe some people need to start bunking up and otherwise cutting "admin" expenses. (How abt not paying the lawyers for the jobs they aren't doing to start?). I'm sure the new "riches" of your altruistic NJA brothers are pouring out in support...they want to "help" so much....

Challenge:
Send all of the paid in full MEMBERS (now in the dark) a financial report of our dues status and itemized expenses. Dues paid from the very first to now, then itemized accounts of how used.
That should not be a problem only going to those PAID IN FULL, right?
Show us WHY this WSJ ad (or even NYT, LA Times, etc) would be so out of reach?

 

[B19 Flyer]

:uzi:

Typical ineffective and incompetent response.
Lose the junior high crew like this and do something EFFECTIVE (like the UAL ALPA example) with dues. Do you really think the owners are going to jump on the pilots side by seeing JUNIOR HIGH materials lying around, or by seeing a professionally written explanation of just what is actually going on?
It's a simple deal, but you'd rather just tell everyone to QUIT???? That's the PLAN???
Gahd help us ALL if it is.
I don't WANT to see the union fail (like so many "supporters" on here seem to want to)... so WTFing LACK of something like what UAL did?

It is MOST CERTAINLY *NOT* apples and oranges...in fact it would be MORE effective in this case.

The grim reaper bs is not only immature, little boy bs, but offputting to whoever sees it.

NOT the attention we WANT to be seen as PROFESSIONALS.

How about refraining from ignorant clutter like WabiSabi et al, and posting "better" IDEAS? Better yet DON'T post them if it needs to be a big "secret" for whatever reason...TELL the leaders!

They obviously NEED them!

United is employee owned.

FLOPS is not.

I like what Pinnicle did better, it makes more sense. :laugh:

My biggest complaint about unions is how they drag their feet when things need to get done. This is a classic example.
__________________
Pinnacle Airlines Files Suit Against ALPA, Cites Bad-Faith Bargaining

MEMPHIS, TN--(Marketwire - January 8, 2008) - Pinnacle Airlines Inc., a wholly owned subsidiary of Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (NASDAQ: PNCL), has filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court against the Air Line Pilots Association International (ALPA) citing bad-faith bargaining in contract talks that began in 2005.
"We regret having to file this lawsuit, but the union left us with no choice. On more than one occasion, we agreed to terms that the union said would result in an agreement, and then they moved the goalposts and made additional demands," said Clive Seal, Vice President and General Manager of Pinnacle Airlines Inc. "We need them to come to the table and deal fairly in a genuine effort to get a fair contract for our Pilots and their families. I believe we would have an agreement already if our Pilots had been told the truth about our offer and been allowed by the union to vote on the company proposal as we requested."
Seal said one result of the union continuing to move the goalposts is not being able to compete for new regional jet service. "The failure of ALPA to reach an agreement with Pinnacle resulted in the loss of 17 of our 50-seat jets and a chance to fly 76-seat jets for Northwest Airlines. On another occasion, one new customer removed Pinnacle from consideration for 25 new regional jets. We let the union know what was at stake on both occasions and that it was imperative that we achieve a new contract in a timely manner. The union's response was that 'it's your problem.' We have a different view. This would have meant hundreds of new jobs for all of our People, including 200 new pilot jobs and immediate upgrades for 110 first officers. Success in this industry is based on growth, and we're offering a deal with that in mind."
"We're simply saying 'shoot straight with our Pilots, share with them what we've offered, not only in formal proposals but in informal meetings where we have agreed to your requests,'" said Seal. "One-sided negotiations can't be successful."
Pinnacle Airlines has a consistent history of reaching agreements with ALPA in 1989, 1996 and 1999. In fact, Duane Woerth, then president of ALPA, was quoted following 1999 negotiations as saying: "This is an extraordinary collective bargaining success. This is the way collective bargaining should work all the time. It's a landmark and a very positive result.'' (The Commercial Appeal, May 1, 1999). The Airline recently reached an initial agreement with the Transportation Workers Union to cover its dispatchers, the United Steel Workers for its flight attendants and has made wage adjustments for all other work groups.
"We want a new contract for our Pilots. We want to be at the table and bring these negotiations to a close. We have bargained in good faith and have repeatedly responded positively to requests from the union. We have been more than fair," said Philip H. Trenary, President and CEO of Pinnacle Airlines. "All of us built this company together under the premise that we are a team, and we think it's unfair that our pilots are the only employee group that has not had a raise since 2005. Now, it's time for the union to be fair by putting union politics aside and doing what's in the best interest of our Pilots."
About Pinnacle Airlines Corp. Pinnacle Airlines Corp., an airline holding company, is the parent company of Pinnacle Airlines Inc. and Colgan Air Inc. Pinnacle Airlines Inc. operates a fleet of 139 regional jets in the United States and Canada as Northwest Airlink and Delta Connection. Colgan Air Inc. operates a fleet of 49 regional turboprops as Continental Connection, United Express and US Airways Express. Pinnacle Airlines Corp. operating units fly over 1,000 daily flights and transport more than 10 million passengers a year to 134 cities and towns in North America. Visit www.pncl.com for more information.

 

[B19 Flyer]

:uzi:

Typical ineffective and incompetent response.
Lose the junior high crew like this and do something EFFECTIVE (like the UAL ALPA example) with dues. Do you really think the owners are going to jump on the pilots side by seeing JUNIOR HIGH materials lying around, or by seeing a professionally written explanation of just what is actually going on?
It's a simple deal, but you'd rather just tell everyone to QUIT???? That's the PLAN???
Gahd help us ALL if it is.
I don't WANT to see the union fail (like so many "supporters" on here seem to want to)... so WTFing LACK of something like what UAL did?

It is MOST CERTAINLY *NOT* apples and oranges...in fact it would be MORE effective in this case.

The grim reaper bs is not only immature, little boy bs, but offputting to whoever sees it.

NOT the attention we WANT to be seen as PROFESSIONALS.

How about refraining from ignorant clutter like WabiSabi et al, and posting "better" IDEAS? Better yet DON'T post them if it needs to be a big "secret" for whatever reason...TELL the leaders!

They obviously NEED them!

You way underestimate the owners. From the owners of fractional aircraft that I've been around, they don't need the WSJ to know that the company they've invested in is having union problems. They are much smarter than that.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

Ugh

United is employee owned.

FLOPS is not.

I like what Pinnicle did better, it makes more sense. :laugh:

You are like a malaria infested GNAT that won't go away.

This is ONE guy that does NOT want to see a full page ad out ANYWHERE. I'm sure he is LOVING the reaper approach...only makes his side look falsely mature since every demonic thing they do is sneaky and underhanded.

You'd think that B19, though, would WANT the union to stick around, since that IS in fact the only reason he has a job right now. There's only so much an ex Eastern guy of a certain hire date can do once he commits career suicide.
Now BACK to the TOPIC, as it seems you make everything about you. uke:

 

[dime line]

My biggest complaint about unions is how they drag their feet when things need to get done. This is a classic example.

Kinda like the company management is doing right now.

 

[Voice Of Reason]

the elephant in the room

You way underestimate the owners. From the owners of fractional aircraft that I've been around, they don't need the WSJ to know that the company they've invested in is having union problems. They are much smarter than that.

...except that they need the UNedited version, not yours.
Kinda like here.