Horizon vs. Skywest???

[flyer7rm]

Just wondering what everyone thought about which one would best to work for. I personally like Horizon.

 

[machaf]

Horizon hands down!

 

[WSurf]

Well there both regionals, so I guess they both suck! So you have to pick the one that sucketh' the least!

 

[Dave Benjamin]

If you intend to spend a career at a regional Horizon has much to offer, particularly if you'd like to live in the Pacific Northwest. However if you don't want to wait 8 years to upgrade in a turboprop you might want to give SKYW some consideration. Senior QX FO's do okay financially so it's not that bad a deal but it really boils down to your goals and preferences. QX has historically grown slower than SKYW.

 

[regionaltard]

Just wondering what everyone thought about which one would best to work for. I personally like Horizon.

If Horizon's pilots don't get with the program and grab their ankles, there's a chance that Skywest could be Horizon some day.

 

[dkwid]

If Horizon's pilots don't get with the program and grab their ankles, there's a chance that Skywest could be Horizon some day.

I appreciate the humor in your post, but real world I would say the two are an unlikely couple. The majority of Horizons flying is their own 'at risk' flying. Horizon finds the routes, sells the tickets, does the marketing and of course the flying and support. Skywest, I woudl bet, has little interest in this sort of mix of work.

As far as the ankle grabbing. hey, we work for a profitable airline with a fare amount of planned growth over the next 18 months. Unless we are interested in chasing lowest bidder flying for United, US Air, etc, which I am fairly confident the majority of us ARE NOT, I think we can cary our heads above our belts.

 

[regionaltard]

I appreciate the humor in your post, but real world I would say the two are an unlikely couple. The majority of Horizons flying is their own 'at risk' flying. Horizon finds the routes, sells the tickets, does the marketing and of course the flying and support.

And you don't think Alaska would start an alter-ego to do that flying if they thought it could be done cheaper? Look at what they did to their own pilots. I've seen the "scope language" in the Horizon contract; it's not worth the paper it's written on.

 

[dkwid]

And you don't think Alaska would start an alter-ego to do that flying if they thought it could be done cheaper? Look at what they did to their own pilots. I've seen the "scope language" in the Horizon contract; it's not worth the paper it's written on.

Sure they could attempt it. My point being is that Alaska does not supplement the bulk of Horizon flying. With the exception of much of the RJ flights from Portland South, Horizon takes all the risks and shares the revenue with the Alaska Air Group. If Alaska were to contract out flying than all they would be doing is gauranteeing a profit for some other carier. When you look at it tlike this it seems unlikely that the Alaska Air Group (which holds both Alaska and Horizon) would have much interest in giving their money (the Alaska Air Groups money) to another corporation just to have a presence in markets. And, once again, The Horizon Air, Alaska Air (and of course the AAG) are both making money so I would guess that the arrangement is a working one. And, quite frankly, you can hardly say this is true in the current "fee based departure" contracts that are offered by the likes of UAL, DAL, NWA and so on.

 

[pookie]

Horizon pilots have left to come to skywest but i have not met one skywest pilot who has left to go to horizon. Its like comparing 7 year upgrade to 3 years. Plus, we dont have dispatchers who are always on flightinfo.

 

[propsarebest]

I have had the pleasure of working at BOTH, and I personally would pick Skywest. There simply isn't any growth at QX. Having said that, There is NOTHING like the family atmosphere at QX. I really miss it.

 

[FlyinPiker]

How many pilots does Skywest currently have on board?

Is there really that much growth predicted there that it would launch a newhire into the ranks of captain-hood in the near future (2-3 years)?

Yes I realize there is attrition...but the bottom of a huge list is still the bottom of a huge list.

 

[rke44]

There's a ex-Skywest pilot in initial right now. However, I would agree with you that most of the people who have switched between the two have gone to Skywest.

 

[MALSR]

And you don't think Alaska would start an alter-ego to do that flying if they thought it could be done cheaper? Look at what they did to their own pilots. I've seen the "scope language" in the Horizon contract; it's not worth the paper it's written on.

Furthermore, there are'nt any major/regional relationships that have been able to harmonize two independent companies quite like horizon and alaska. For example, they share the same payroll and marketing departments. This practice saves millions of dollars whereas air service agreements at other airlines just end up costing both companys money by having to run many different departments that do the same task.

 

[indianboy7]

......Horizon and SkyWest are both class acts.....good companies to work for..the question is where can you work where you can live where you want to live.....

 

[ReverseSensing]

I think either company would be an excellent choice. It really depends upon your priorities. A few items in this thread need to be addressed:

However if you don't want to wait 8 years to upgrade in a turboprop you might want to give SKYW some consideration.

Upgrade is not 8 years currently, it is a little under 6. That's a fact. I don't know when the last time (if ever) it was 8 years, except by choice. I would be really surprised if you could find anyone currently knowledgeable about the company (and with no axe to grind) who believes that it will get worse; in fact after the last pre-9/11 new hires upgrade next year, upgrade times may drop to the 4 year range. Could this change? Of course it could. Is chasing upgrade times in the regionals a great plan? Not in my opinion. Again, though, it's all about personal priorities.

Any insinuation that a long upgrade time to a turboprop is somehow unacceptable versus a long upgrade time to a regional jet is unconvincing to me. That's strictly an ego argument. I know it's important to some people.

If Horizon's pilots don't get with the program and grab their ankles, there's a chance that Skywest could be Horizon some day.

Not that you care, I'm sure, but I really like your posts (though I think you might be Yank McCobb). The problem with your logic is that even if Horizon pilots do "get with the program and grab their ankles, there's a chance that Skywest could be Horizon some day." Not a proven track record lately of concessions paying dividends for regional pilot groups. When the time comes, management will insist that the only way we can prosper is by lowering costs through concessions. I'd be shocked if we don't hear that starting this month. Does that mean it's true or that we should? The "Top 225" might buy it, but I don't.

Horizon pilots have left to come to skywest but i have not met one skywest pilot who has left to go to horizon. Its like comparing 7 year upgrade to 3 years. Plus, we dont have dispatchers who are always on flightinfo.

Funny post, but it feels a little warm to me, if you know what I mean.

I know upgrade times are the Holy Grail to some people. That's your prerogative. I don't think there's any way for anyone on this board to verify the numbers from either group that have gone to the other. My sense is there would be an insignificant difference in the numbers if you could. More importantly, we could never know the reasons someone chose to go from one to the other unless they come on here and tell us. It's such a personal choice, and may or may not include upgrade times.

As for dispatchers who are always on flightinfo, perhaps you were trying to be funny, but for the life of me I don't understand the relevance. In my opinion that dispatcher was always positive about Horizon and didn't take pot-shots at Skywest to my knowledge. Why the dig? How do you know you don't have dispatchers that are always on flightinfo?

......Horizon and SkyWest are both class acts.....good companies to work for..the question is where can you work where you can live where you want to live.....

Agreed! Unfortunately, if you're thinking about Horizon because of the SEA base, I recommend caution. I don't have a good feeling about the long-term prospects for a QX SEA pilot domicile, though I can't quite figure out why anyone in management thinks this is a good plan. Can you imagine having your Headquarters, your largest number of city pairs, and your largest number of flights served out of a city without a pilot domicile? Bizarre.

 

[foofighter101]

I happen to work for Skywest and have been treated well for 6 1/2 years. I've always heard good things about Horizon minus the slow upgrade, but that could always change. It really depends where you want to live. Skywest has a lot more domiciles to choose from, but only Portland in the northwest. Portland is senior and stagnant. The junior base of Skywest is ORD. On a side note, in cities where we share common overnights, Horizon crews have been the most laid back and friendly of any airline - major or regional.

 

[regionaltard]

Not that you care, I'm sure, but I really like your posts (though I think you might be Yank McCobb).

Bzzzzzt! Incorrect answer, but thanks for playing. I'd like to think that I've played a small part in Yank MaKnob's recent absence from discussions of topics he knows nothing about.

 

[ReverseSensing]

Bzzzzzt! Incorrect answer, but thanks for playing. I'd like to think that I've played a small part in Yank MaKnob's recent absence from discussions of topics he knows nothing about.

Yeah, I didn't really think you were Yank, but you both have a similar grumpy on-line persona, and both make similar disparaging remarks about the price/worth of QX contract paper. I think Yank just stopped using that name after Mark died; I'm sure he's around in some form, but I can't figure out who he is. Anyway, thanks for reminding me about that thread. I never did read the end of it.

P.S. Well done on the Mesa haiku. Can you do one in iambic pentameter?

 

[regionaltard]

P.S. Well done on the Mesa haiku. Can you do one in iambic pentameter?

to dog mesa in
iambic pentameter
hard for pea sized brain

 

[ReverseSensing]

to dog mesa in
iambic pentameter
hard for pea sized brain

Careful! I'm starting to see through the grumpy on-line persona!

a trip, I received,
on the phone just now, away
I must go, in haste!